As America gets tougher on crime, our prison population continues to grow as one out of every one hundred adults is incarcerated. Joining us with a plan to cut both crime and the prison population is Mark Kleiman, author of When Brute Force Fails: How to Have Less Crime and Less Punishment, and San Francisco Police Chief George Gascón. Kleiman is a public policy professor in the UCLA School of Public Affairs and a nationally recognized expert in the field of crime and drug policy. Gascón served in the LAPD for 28 years and was Chief of Police for the Mesa Police Department in Arizona before taking lead of the San Francisco Police Department in 2009.