WEBVTT

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You guys can cheer.

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Hi, everyone, I'm Erin Christovale.

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I'm one of the curators here at the

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Hammer Museum.

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Very excited to have

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you all here tonight for a

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Refashioned Lecture,

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which, I assure you, is not like

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any other lecture you've seen

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before.

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This lecture comes out of

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a slate of programs and an

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exhibition that's currently

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on view called Refashioning: CFGNY

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and Wataru Tominaga.

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And it's a really wonderful

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exhibition that originated

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at the Japan Society in New York

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and came here and will be open

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for just another

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week. I believe Sunday is the

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closing day, so,

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please go and see it.

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It's wonderful.

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Tonight I will be joined

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by CFGNY, who is a New

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York based artist and

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fashion design collective,

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who works with garments

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and fabric and sculpture

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and several mediums to think

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through the notion of being vaguely

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Asian, which we'll get

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into.

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So I will open it now,

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and I'd like to introduce

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CFGNY Daniel 210

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Nguyen and ten easier.

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Thank you.

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Hello.

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My name is Daniel Chu.

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My name is Tim Nguyen.

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And I'm ten zero.

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We're together with the like.

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So we started CFG in 2016.

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And we are collective

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based in New York.

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And, it was at

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first Daniel and I had met, and

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during that time we were just

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working in the art world as

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assistants.

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We met at a party.

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We were socializing,

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but we were also sample sale

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shopping at the time.

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And at some of these sample

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sales, we realized that was sort of

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like where other queer agents were

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congregating.

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And I think,

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sort of like identity politics and

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identity politics.

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And the art world was in a really

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different place then.

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And Daniel and I were trying to

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figure out a way in which we

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wanted to have a conversation and

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share this kind of interest,

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but we wanted to expand

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that conversation with,

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a community of people.

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And we realized

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that fashion could be the medium

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to sort of do so with.

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Oh shoot. I have the clicker.

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I, I totally.

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And at the time I think like within

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the art world, like you could see

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that

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if you were sort of, minority

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or you're not white, you're sort of

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like tokenized this the world, which

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kind of sort of created a type

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of competition between people.

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And we could see people who are

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older than us sort of like competing

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to be that tokenized spot.

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And we wanted to we want to do

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something completely different or

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opposite in that.

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And so we thought we would

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collaborate instead, actually.

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And yeah, we coined the term vaguely

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Asian, which Aaron had mentioned

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to describe the project, and

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I think vaguely Asian comes from

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sort of our thinking around sort of

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like being racialized and,

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you know, like we all come from very

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different cultural backgrounds.

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Tan is half Japanese, half

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Chinese, I am Burmese

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Chinese, and ten is Vietnamese.

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And while we don't come from

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this sort of same cultural

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heritage, we all understand

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what it means to be racialized as

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Asian, basically.

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And that this, this sort of like

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racialization is a constant

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process that is not only happening

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between us, but between,

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everyone else we also interact with

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and who also perceive us.

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And yeah, it's sort of like

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sees identity as this more sort of

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like fluid, sort

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of indefinable thing that we

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all have a hand in.

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Yeah.

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So although I was not involved

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in this project at this time,

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to then Daniel also wanted a way to

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kind of get to know, Southeast

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Asia better. And tens mom had

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taken them or had brought back,

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custom made clothing from Vietnam

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a bunch since he was young.

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And so they decided to start,

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through this idea of connecting

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people through garments to start,

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collective and start producing

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garments in Vietnam.

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Which are these images that are

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going across the screen right now.

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So actually how we make collections

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is, we work

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on this tourist street in Ho Chi

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Minh City, and it's an industry

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that popped up, in the late 80s

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post Vietnam War.

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And, they make

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clothes really quickly.

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So they're not factories.

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They're usually like homes

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where families live in the

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buildings. But then the bottom floor

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is kind of tailor and shop and,

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yeah. So what they often do

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is like they provide they can make

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suits in like two days.

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Expats and Westerners who travel on

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that street get their favorite,

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like, dresses copied.

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So you see, like kind of replicas of

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designer clothes, Zara,

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things like that.

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So there is this sort of, I think

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with them why we're interested in

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working with them is one I do speak

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Vietnamese, but they also speak

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English. So the Daniel

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and ten are also able to communicate

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with them.

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And, one

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thing that was sort of interesting

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for us and it helped develop the

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project in terms of thinking about,

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like us as diaspora was

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often when we made clothes with them

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because none of us were trained in

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fashion.

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They would have to make these sort

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of detailed decisions, like we

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would show up with muslin samples

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that were sort of, very loose, but

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didn't like,

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yeah, they didn't identify, like

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what a collar looked like or how

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to make a seam or a hammer fold.

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So they would make these decisions

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that we didn't necessarily perceive.

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And when we would ask them about it,

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they would tell us, well, you guys

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are Westerners. So we made these

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decisions for you.

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Because we are used to working

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with with people like you.

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And we know what you want.

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Yeah. So our first collection

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kind of thought about that.

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And with we thought of the first

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collection or the practice in

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general with them as this material

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conversation where they really

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contribute a kind of voice within

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it.

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And when we sort of finished making

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the clothes and the collection and

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we came back to New York from

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Vietnam, we thought

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we should do a fashion show with

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everything. And at that time,

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you know, we didn't really have that

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big of a community around us.

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And we thought, if we can invite

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a bunch of people to sort of

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collaborate on making this one day

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event happen, maybe some type of

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like connections or some type of

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community will form out of it.

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And so we like casted people

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like it was friends, but also just

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friends of friends with people who

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we wanted to sort of have this

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conversation with.

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We just sort of, encountered

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online.

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And we brought a bunch of people

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together and we had a lot of fun

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sort of making this one day event,

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and some type of community did kind

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of form out of it.

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And that was sort of like, yeah, the

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start of the journey of sketching,

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like I would say.

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Yeah. I mean, just thinking about

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that question further,

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how fashion and garments

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inform your larger practice.

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I'm curious to know more about

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that. Also, you know how

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fashion sort of seeps into

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the various other mediums that

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you create in this project?

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CFGNY?

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So we, as

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I think tin mentioned or Daniel

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mentioned earlier, someone mentioned

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earlier, maybe or maybe not.

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All of us don't have a background in

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fashion. We have very different

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kind of art related backgrounds.

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So we approach fashion in kind

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of the same way that we approach

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these other mediums as well, such

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as like sculpture, photography,

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filmmaking, where it is

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this readymade apparatus that has

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all of these attendant economies

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and associations and markets tied

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to it, as well as materials.

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So the material being garments,

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like another material being,

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groupings of people or like movement

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of people as well as

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economies, involving

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like trade from different countries,

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and like pathways of production.

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So, we

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are really inspired by

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the ways that, the

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ways that fashion as a medium,

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can be used to kind of speak about

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sociality and people,

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as well as these other kinds of

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forces.

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I think another big part of it was

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that, like

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the first time I went to Vietnam, I

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was painting, and I had such

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a sort of like, difficult time

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doing so because I just wanted to

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see the world there and kind of be

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present with the people.

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And contemporary art is

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there is a contemporary art scene in

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Ho Chi Minh City or in Vietnam in

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general. But, I think

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that like the

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the more public sort of or like

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there's a larger audience for

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fashion or garment making because

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so many companies are based there.

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So it was a way for us

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to just be more kind of thoroughly

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involved with the community, like

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00:10:11.020 --> 00:10:12.609
how we had started was that we would

290
00:10:12.610 --> 00:10:14.049
just go to the markets and kind of

291
00:10:14.050 --> 00:10:15.879
buy fabrics and ask people if

292
00:10:15.880 --> 00:10:17.349
they knew sample makers and things

293
00:10:17.350 --> 00:10:18.549
like that, and then they would sort

294
00:10:18.550 --> 00:10:20.889
of point us in certain directions.

295
00:10:20.890 --> 00:10:22.059
And even now there's like a

296
00:10:22.060 --> 00:10:23.379
streetwear scene that's freely

297
00:10:23.380 --> 00:10:24.519
present there that we're friends

298
00:10:24.520 --> 00:10:26.589
with. And, we

299
00:10:26.590 --> 00:10:28.359
really try to include that, like

300
00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:30.339
when our friends from New York or

301
00:10:30.340 --> 00:10:31.419
LA or wherever visit.

302
00:10:31.420 --> 00:10:32.979
We always try to kind of get them

303
00:10:32.980 --> 00:10:34.569
connected into this more like

304
00:10:34.570 --> 00:10:36.489
international conversation

305
00:10:36.490 --> 00:10:39.129
that intersects fashion and art.

306
00:10:39.130 --> 00:10:40.749
So yeah, I think for us, it's like a

307
00:10:40.750 --> 00:10:41.919
way to collapse that kind of

308
00:10:41.920 --> 00:10:43.509
creativity.

309
00:10:43.510 --> 00:10:45.489
But then also be there and

310
00:10:45.490 --> 00:10:47.079
really be able to speak to the

311
00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:48.939
people and have them understand

312
00:10:48.940 --> 00:10:50.439
to some degree of what what we're

313
00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:51.609
doing.

314
00:10:51.610 --> 00:10:52.610
And I think,

315
00:10:53.800 --> 00:10:55.719
something important is that,

316
00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:57.399
as I said earlier, we're all artists

317
00:10:57.400 --> 00:10:58.899
and we have these different ways of

318
00:10:58.900 --> 00:11:01.239
approaching art independently.

319
00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:03.939
But as a practice, CFGNY,

320
00:11:03.940 --> 00:11:05.799
although we do like fashion, we

321
00:11:05.800 --> 00:11:07.299
do photography, installation,

322
00:11:07.300 --> 00:11:08.769
painting, all sorts of things.

323
00:11:08.770 --> 00:11:10.749
I think the crux of our project

324
00:11:10.750 --> 00:11:12.699
is looking at how,

325
00:11:12.700 --> 00:11:14.559
like, how people have come together,

326
00:11:14.560 --> 00:11:16.389
like historically, as well as in the

327
00:11:16.390 --> 00:11:18.249
present day in, like, downtown New

328
00:11:18.250 --> 00:11:20.229
York City or in Chinatown.

329
00:11:20.230 --> 00:11:22.179
So a lot of our practices are a lot

330
00:11:22.180 --> 00:11:23.859
of our projects kind of look at how

331
00:11:23.860 --> 00:11:25.929
people have how I like,

332
00:11:25.930 --> 00:11:27.609
you know, identity or like a social

333
00:11:27.610 --> 00:11:29.139
kind of identity or social grouping

334
00:11:29.140 --> 00:11:30.909
has formed. And fashion is a real

335
00:11:30.910 --> 00:11:32.349
way that you can bring people

336
00:11:32.350 --> 00:11:34.299
together in this one kind of

337
00:11:34.300 --> 00:11:35.739
moment.

338
00:11:35.740 --> 00:11:37.569
We also like that it is something

339
00:11:37.570 --> 00:11:39.729
that sort of exists in everyone's

340
00:11:39.730 --> 00:11:41.019
lives.

341
00:11:41.020 --> 00:11:42.929
You know, I think we think a lot,

342
00:11:42.930 --> 00:11:44.739
lot about like, relational esthetics

343
00:11:44.740 --> 00:11:46.569
that sort of like 90s art movement.

344
00:11:46.570 --> 00:11:47.919
And I think one of the critiques

345
00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:49.149
that we have of that is that it was

346
00:11:49.150 --> 00:11:51.369
always so contained to an exhibition

347
00:11:51.370 --> 00:11:52.689
space.

348
00:11:52.690 --> 00:11:54.819
And by like sort of producing

349
00:11:54.820 --> 00:11:56.139
clothes and having people actually

350
00:11:56.140 --> 00:11:58.089
live with them every day, was

351
00:11:58.090 --> 00:11:59.679
like a way for us to have sort of

352
00:11:59.680 --> 00:12:01.479
like our creative output be

353
00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:03.399
something that you live with and

354
00:12:03.400 --> 00:12:05.319
is actually so close to your body.

355
00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:07.509
It's like literally like touching

356
00:12:07.510 --> 00:12:09.399
your body, though, and

357
00:12:09.400 --> 00:12:10.749
sort of like intervening in that

358
00:12:10.750 --> 00:12:12.189
space.

359
00:12:12.190 --> 00:12:12.369
You.

360
00:12:12.370 --> 00:12:14.289
Know, and I think another thing with

361
00:12:14.290 --> 00:12:16.179
fashion that we're

362
00:12:16.180 --> 00:12:18.189
interested in was, I think, like

363
00:12:18.190 --> 00:12:19.999
the esthetics of it and.

364
00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:21.859
Terms of like the way in which

365
00:12:21.860 --> 00:12:23.359
someone may read someone.

366
00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:24.829
I think the way in which someone may

367
00:12:24.830 --> 00:12:27.139
read you, like visually

368
00:12:27.140 --> 00:12:28.999
in terms of your race, like it

369
00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:31.159
is a sort of like there's visual

370
00:12:31.160 --> 00:12:32.449
cues to that, right, of how

371
00:12:32.450 --> 00:12:33.799
someone's hair might be or.

372
00:12:35.300 --> 00:12:37.129
Yeah. Like what?

373
00:12:37.130 --> 00:12:38.719
In relation to, like, the way in

374
00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:40.549
which we read, like, racial

375
00:12:40.550 --> 00:12:42.079
cues of one another.

376
00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:43.849
It's a similar way in which you can

377
00:12:43.850 --> 00:12:45.739
read the esthetics of garment of

378
00:12:45.740 --> 00:12:46.879
garments on someone.

379
00:12:46.880 --> 00:12:48.739
And when you wear garments,

380
00:12:48.740 --> 00:12:50.329
you know, you can't change your race

381
00:12:50.330 --> 00:12:52.519
or like how you sort of are legible

382
00:12:52.520 --> 00:12:53.839
in that way. But with garments

383
00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:55.759
you're able to,

384
00:12:55.760 --> 00:12:57.169
there's a kind of playfulness where

385
00:12:57.170 --> 00:12:58.970
you can kind of like surpass.

386
00:13:00.650 --> 00:13:02.539
Perceptions or intervene in that

387
00:13:02.540 --> 00:13:03.709
type of reception.

388
00:13:03.710 --> 00:13:04.710
You know.

389
00:13:05.540 --> 00:13:06.890
She's so iconic.

390
00:13:08.810 --> 00:13:10.699
This is someone who is cast,

391
00:13:10.700 --> 00:13:11.839
at Trader Joe's.

392
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:12.840
Yeah.

393
00:13:14.510 --> 00:13:16.489
Yeah. So, like, we often just,

394
00:13:16.490 --> 00:13:18.559
I mean, with our models,

395
00:13:18.560 --> 00:13:20.569
they're people we've had done

396
00:13:20.570 --> 00:13:21.739
for fashion shows now.

397
00:13:21.740 --> 00:13:23.179
So also a lot of the same people

398
00:13:23.180 --> 00:13:25.369
walking their other artists.

399
00:13:25.370 --> 00:13:26.659
And it's been really interesting for

400
00:13:26.660 --> 00:13:28.159
us. It always feels like a kind of

401
00:13:28.160 --> 00:13:30.019
like reunion when we have

402
00:13:30.020 --> 00:13:31.639
a show where everyone sees each

403
00:13:31.640 --> 00:13:33.349
other and spends the whole day, and

404
00:13:33.350 --> 00:13:35.479
it it does create this kind of bond

405
00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:36.679
or this conversation.

406
00:13:36.680 --> 00:13:38.599
The last show, my mom,

407
00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:40.729
cooked food for 70 people,

408
00:13:40.730 --> 00:13:42.289
and then we opened like a cafe in

409
00:13:42.290 --> 00:13:43.819
the back of the museum, which was

410
00:13:43.820 --> 00:13:45.679
back of house and like, yeah, I

411
00:13:45.680 --> 00:13:46.879
don't know. We do all these little

412
00:13:46.880 --> 00:13:49.069
things. I think outside of

413
00:13:49.070 --> 00:13:50.899
the our practice in

414
00:13:50.900 --> 00:13:52.939
a public sphere that really sort of

415
00:13:52.940 --> 00:13:55.039
build upon what we actually do

416
00:13:55.040 --> 00:13:56.449
and how we exist.

417
00:13:58.250 --> 00:14:00.409
So when it comes to this term,

418
00:14:00.410 --> 00:14:02.479
vaguely Asian,

419
00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:04.249
can you explain a bit about how that

420
00:14:04.250 --> 00:14:06.079
shows up specifically in

421
00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:08.029
this refashioning exhibition?

422
00:14:09.560 --> 00:14:11.479
So as Aaron had mentioned

423
00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:13.429
earlier, this refashioned exhibition

424
00:14:13.430 --> 00:14:14.809
actually started at this place

425
00:14:14.810 --> 00:14:17.059
called Japan Society in New York.

426
00:14:17.060 --> 00:14:18.499
And when we were invited to do the

427
00:14:18.500 --> 00:14:20.389
show, Japan Society, we wanted

428
00:14:20.390 --> 00:14:22.399
to answer the question, why

429
00:14:22.400 --> 00:14:23.989
does Japan Society exist?

430
00:14:23.990 --> 00:14:25.639
Even if it's like this weird

431
00:14:25.640 --> 00:14:27.889
organization that exists near the US

432
00:14:27.890 --> 00:14:29.899
that sort of hosts shows

433
00:14:29.900 --> 00:14:31.729
and does film screenings and has

434
00:14:31.730 --> 00:14:33.619
language classes, and because

435
00:14:33.620 --> 00:14:35.569
it's near the UN, people

436
00:14:35.570 --> 00:14:37.009
assume that it's like a project of

437
00:14:37.010 --> 00:14:38.629
the Japanese government.

438
00:14:38.630 --> 00:14:40.369
But actually, after doing a little

439
00:14:40.370 --> 00:14:41.329
bit of research about the

440
00:14:41.330 --> 00:14:43.099
organization, we were surprised to

441
00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:44.329
learn that it was actually an

442
00:14:44.330 --> 00:14:46.669
American organization established

443
00:14:46.670 --> 00:14:48.769
in 1907,

444
00:14:48.770 --> 00:14:50.749
by American businessmen who

445
00:14:50.750 --> 00:14:52.609
wanted basically closer ties

446
00:14:52.610 --> 00:14:53.960
to the lead of Japan.

447
00:14:55.580 --> 00:14:57.259
And this was it was actually

448
00:14:57.260 --> 00:14:59.119
established, at the end of

449
00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:01.939
the Russian Japanese war.

450
00:15:01.940 --> 00:15:03.439
And that was the first time that a

451
00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:04.999
nonwhite country had beaten a

452
00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:06.439
country in a war.

453
00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:09.379
And like modern times, basically,

454
00:15:09.380 --> 00:15:10.969
and sort of announced Japan as the

455
00:15:10.970 --> 00:15:13.099
sort of like global player, global

456
00:15:13.100 --> 00:15:14.569
political player on, like, the world

457
00:15:14.570 --> 00:15:15.570
stage.

458
00:15:17.330 --> 00:15:19.279
And yeah, the Japan society has

459
00:15:19.280 --> 00:15:20.659
like gone through many.

460
00:15:20.660 --> 00:15:22.519
Oh, and basically we thought

461
00:15:22.520 --> 00:15:24.439
that it was like a sort of apt

462
00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:25.969
metaphor for that, like actually

463
00:15:25.970 --> 00:15:27.799
Japan society, because they

464
00:15:27.800 --> 00:15:29.239
were so influential in creating a

465
00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:30.859
sort of knowledge around Japanese

466
00:15:30.860 --> 00:15:32.389
ness and by extension, us by

467
00:15:32.390 --> 00:15:33.889
extension, Asian ness for an

468
00:15:33.890 --> 00:15:35.029
American audience.

469
00:15:35.030 --> 00:15:36.469
They were interested in this idea of

470
00:15:36.470 --> 00:15:38.509
like a vaguely Asian as much as CFG,

471
00:15:38.510 --> 00:15:40.339
and white was and sort

472
00:15:40.340 --> 00:15:41.569
of reading their history through

473
00:15:41.570 --> 00:15:43.519
that concept.

474
00:15:43.520 --> 00:15:45.349
And yeah, there's the general

475
00:15:45.350 --> 00:15:47.299
outline of like the timeline of

476
00:15:47.300 --> 00:15:49.519
Japan society is that pre-war,

477
00:15:49.520 --> 00:15:50.809
most of their activities are

478
00:15:50.810 --> 00:15:52.339
actually just luncheons and dinners

479
00:15:52.340 --> 00:15:54.889
for visiting viscounts,

480
00:15:54.890 --> 00:15:56.719
ambassadors, like the

481
00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:58.579
Japanese elite, and then actually

482
00:15:58.580 --> 00:16:00.679
closed for ten years during

483
00:16:00.680 --> 00:16:02.149
World War two with the bombing of

484
00:16:02.150 --> 00:16:03.409
Pearl Harbor.

485
00:16:03.410 --> 00:16:05.059
And then postwar, it really became

486
00:16:05.060 --> 00:16:06.619
the project of John Rockefeller, the

487
00:16:06.620 --> 00:16:08.629
third, who created the Japan Society

488
00:16:08.630 --> 00:16:09.979
that we know today. That is sort of

489
00:16:09.980 --> 00:16:11.929
like, culturally

490
00:16:11.930 --> 00:16:13.969
focused, and sort

491
00:16:13.970 --> 00:16:16.069
of has that soft, soft power side

492
00:16:16.070 --> 00:16:17.209
to it, I would say.

493
00:16:18.350 --> 00:16:21.409
And so in the original exhibition,

494
00:16:21.410 --> 00:16:22.969
we incorporated sort of like our

495
00:16:22.970 --> 00:16:24.799
research into the archive and

496
00:16:24.800 --> 00:16:26.719
the, video that is also

497
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:28.429
actually also upstairs that has sort

498
00:16:28.430 --> 00:16:30.289
of excerpts from the actual

499
00:16:30.290 --> 00:16:32.149
Archive of Japan Society that we

500
00:16:32.150 --> 00:16:33.589
went through.

501
00:16:33.590 --> 00:16:35.599
But then also why the ceramic

502
00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:37.339
room is sort of structured in a way

503
00:16:37.340 --> 00:16:38.779
to look like a banquet hall was to

504
00:16:38.780 --> 00:16:40.279
sort of reference that history that

505
00:16:40.280 --> 00:16:41.299
I talked about earlier.

506
00:16:44.800 --> 00:16:46.779
Yeah. I think,

507
00:16:46.780 --> 00:16:48.759
what was really interesting about

508
00:16:48.760 --> 00:16:51.069
moving the show from Japan Society

509
00:16:51.070 --> 00:16:53.109
to the hammer is that because

510
00:16:53.110 --> 00:16:55.419
we had a larger space, there's

511
00:16:55.420 --> 00:16:57.459
this room for you all to do

512
00:16:57.460 --> 00:16:59.319
more of this looking here in

513
00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:01.059
Southern California.

514
00:17:01.060 --> 00:17:03.159
And so can you talk about what

515
00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:05.139
you brought to the project here

516
00:17:05.140 --> 00:17:06.848
at The Hammer that wasn't at the

517
00:17:06.849 --> 00:17:09.279
Japan Society, and specifically

518
00:17:09.280 --> 00:17:11.169
what archives and research you

519
00:17:11.170 --> 00:17:12.368
were looking at in Southern

520
00:17:12.369 --> 00:17:13.369
California?

521
00:17:15.069 --> 00:17:17.338
So as Janet was describing

522
00:17:17.339 --> 00:17:19.318
what Japan Society was, it

523
00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:21.209
was this very

524
00:17:21.210 --> 00:17:23.068
elite, elite, very

525
00:17:23.069 --> 00:17:25.019
white organization that was targeted

526
00:17:25.020 --> 00:17:27.088
towards an elite white,

527
00:17:27.089 --> 00:17:29.009
audience, specifically in New

528
00:17:29.010 --> 00:17:31.229
York and on the East Coast.

529
00:17:31.230 --> 00:17:33.329
And the, narrative of Japanese

530
00:17:33.330 --> 00:17:35.519
this, that, this, that Japan Society

531
00:17:35.520 --> 00:17:36.990
was disseminating at the time,

532
00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:39.959
was of this kind of like,

533
00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:42.029
timeless, very tidy idea

534
00:17:42.030 --> 00:17:44.279
of, a very genteel

535
00:17:44.280 --> 00:17:45.269
idea of Japan.

536
00:17:45.270 --> 00:17:47.279
And we found it

537
00:17:47.280 --> 00:17:49.139
very interesting that there was

538
00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:51.239
no rupture in Japan Society's

539
00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:53.129
archive during World War two.

540
00:17:53.130 --> 00:17:54.929
Whereas, at the same time in

541
00:17:54.930 --> 00:17:57.089
California and along the West Coast,

542
00:17:57.090 --> 00:17:58.319
there were actually quite a few

543
00:17:58.320 --> 00:18:00.149
Japanese people living in the US

544
00:18:00.150 --> 00:18:01.769
who had a very different narrative

545
00:18:01.770 --> 00:18:04.259
kind of unfolding contemporaneously.

546
00:18:04.260 --> 00:18:06.089
Whose archives were like,

547
00:18:06.090 --> 00:18:07.979
were disrupted tremendously during

548
00:18:07.980 --> 00:18:09.089
World War two.

549
00:18:09.090 --> 00:18:10.979
A lot of people destroyed their own

550
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.329
family archives during this time

551
00:18:12.330 --> 00:18:13.589
because there was so much racial

552
00:18:13.590 --> 00:18:14.969
paranoia.

553
00:18:14.970 --> 00:18:17.369
And people were incarcerated

554
00:18:17.370 --> 00:18:19.709
in, camps anyway, regardless

555
00:18:19.710 --> 00:18:20.999
of their destruction of their own

556
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:21.899
archives.

557
00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:22.900
So,

558
00:18:23.790 --> 00:18:25.409
for the expansion of the hammer, we

559
00:18:25.410 --> 00:18:26.789
were kind of interested in these

560
00:18:26.790 --> 00:18:28.919
differences in narrow devising

561
00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:30.809
a people where Japan society is this

562
00:18:30.810 --> 00:18:33.539
very tidy, tidy, encompassing,

563
00:18:33.540 --> 00:18:35.399
kind of like elite, genteel

564
00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:37.409
narrative. And there's this, like

565
00:18:37.410 --> 00:18:39.329
other very messy narrative unfolding

566
00:18:39.330 --> 00:18:40.589
at the same time.

567
00:18:40.590 --> 00:18:42.839
Yeah. We found a quote in,

568
00:18:42.840 --> 00:18:44.999
Japan Society's archives that

569
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.519
had mentioned, the Japanese

570
00:18:47.520 --> 00:18:49.529
in America on the West Coast.

571
00:18:49.530 --> 00:18:51.059
The history of Japanese America on

572
00:18:51.060 --> 00:18:52.469
the West Coast was a history of the

573
00:18:52.470 --> 00:18:53.249
working class.

574
00:18:53.250 --> 00:18:55.169
So, when

575
00:18:55.170 --> 00:18:56.669
looking at the archives, I mean,

576
00:18:56.670 --> 00:18:58.799
pre, internment,

577
00:18:58.800 --> 00:19:00.719
a lot of it sort of a

578
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:02.039
lot of the Japanese that were in the

579
00:19:02.040 --> 00:19:04.259
US were like gardening,

580
00:19:04.260 --> 00:19:06.119
and doing other types of labor.

581
00:19:06.120 --> 00:19:08.129
And with this exhibition,

582
00:19:08.130 --> 00:19:09.749
because the Japan Society Show was

583
00:19:09.750 --> 00:19:11.579
so much about it as

584
00:19:11.580 --> 00:19:13.439
an organization, it as a sort

585
00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:15.419
of, a way for

586
00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:16.829
these Americans to sort of like,

587
00:19:16.830 --> 00:19:18.659
expand business, like, you know,

588
00:19:18.660 --> 00:19:21.569
it was to bring in Japanese goods.

589
00:19:21.570 --> 00:19:24.029
They wanted to educate people about,

590
00:19:24.030 --> 00:19:25.619
you know, the Japanese who were

591
00:19:25.620 --> 00:19:27.569
like, civil in a way that the rest

592
00:19:27.570 --> 00:19:28.469
of Asia wasn't.

593
00:19:28.470 --> 00:19:29.470
They would organize,

594
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:31.679
these visiting trips.

595
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:33.509
So you could you could go with them

596
00:19:33.510 --> 00:19:35.429
and visit Japan, and they would

597
00:19:35.430 --> 00:19:36.989
and then they would also do lectures

598
00:19:36.990 --> 00:19:38.879
about Japan, and

599
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:40.079
educate people.

600
00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:41.969
So then with the Japan's,

601
00:19:41.970 --> 00:19:44.009
with our show at the hammer,

602
00:19:44.010 --> 00:19:45.959
we wanted to trace a more kind of

603
00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:47.819
like, more tell

604
00:19:47.820 --> 00:19:49.619
a story about a kind of personhood

605
00:19:49.620 --> 00:19:51.509
and like, yeah, more

606
00:19:51.510 --> 00:19:53.549
personal story of Japanese

607
00:19:53.550 --> 00:19:55.229
American peop, actually, Japanese

608
00:19:55.230 --> 00:19:57.449
American people that lived here

609
00:19:57.450 --> 00:19:59.249
that were, you know, born and raised

610
00:19:59.250 --> 00:20:00.779
here several generations.

611
00:20:01.860 --> 00:20:03.719
And also something that I think

612
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:05.399
whenever you speak about, like

613
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:07.169
minority people in the U.S.

614
00:20:07.170 --> 00:20:09.239
or racialized people,

615
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:10.799
there's often the narrative that is

616
00:20:10.800 --> 00:20:12.569
most widely told is like a heroic

617
00:20:12.570 --> 00:20:13.619
narrative or an exceptional

618
00:20:13.620 --> 00:20:15.749
narrative, such as like because

619
00:20:15.750 --> 00:20:17.609
many of the, Japanese living

620
00:20:17.610 --> 00:20:19.349
on the West Coast were citizens,

621
00:20:19.350 --> 00:20:20.729
they, like, were unjustly

622
00:20:20.730 --> 00:20:22.769
incarcerated. But these narratives

623
00:20:22.770 --> 00:20:25.079
often like, like,

624
00:20:25.080 --> 00:20:27.569
kind of obliterate other reasons why

625
00:20:27.570 --> 00:20:28.919
like, that's irrelevant.

626
00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:30.179
Like exceptionalism is kind of a

627
00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:31.379
lie.

628
00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:32.669
So when we were going through these

629
00:20:32.670 --> 00:20:34.349
archives and looking for, like,

630
00:20:34.350 --> 00:20:36.179
these threads that we would turn

631
00:20:36.180 --> 00:20:37.889
into this exhibition at the hammer,

632
00:20:37.890 --> 00:20:39.449
we were specifically looking for

633
00:20:39.450 --> 00:20:41.039
people who would typically be left

634
00:20:41.040 --> 00:20:43.019
out of an archive, such as elderly

635
00:20:43.020 --> 00:20:44.789
people, non-citizens, people who

636
00:20:44.790 --> 00:20:46.139
could not become citizens for legal

637
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:47.640
reasons, and children.

638
00:20:49.840 --> 00:20:52.299
And so this is a bunch of images of,

639
00:20:52.300 --> 00:20:54.249
archival research that we did at the

640
00:20:54.250 --> 00:20:56.319
Japanese-American National Museum,

641
00:20:56.320 --> 00:20:58.359
which is downtown LA, as well as

642
00:20:58.360 --> 00:20:59.649
at UCLA.

643
00:20:59.650 --> 00:21:02.019
And with their UGA,

644
00:21:02.020 --> 00:21:03.309
collection.

645
00:21:03.310 --> 00:21:05.529
And if you have seen the exhibition

646
00:21:05.530 --> 00:21:07.359
itself, actually, we did

647
00:21:07.360 --> 00:21:08.739
the same thing. We hadn't sort of

648
00:21:08.740 --> 00:21:10.719
worked in the same vein where we

649
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:12.759
incorporated the same vein

650
00:21:12.760 --> 00:21:13.959
as Japan Society, where we

651
00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:15.489
incorporated the research into one

652
00:21:15.490 --> 00:21:17.319
piece, which is, we had a direct

653
00:21:17.320 --> 00:21:18.999
reference to it, which is the sound

654
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.409
piece that exists in the middle of

655
00:21:20.410 --> 00:21:22.869
the room called Time Stencil,

656
00:21:22.870 --> 00:21:25.029
and seems to drag or time drags

657
00:21:25.030 --> 00:21:27.279
and seems to stand still sighing,

658
00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:28.869
which is, what this pictured right

659
00:21:28.870 --> 00:21:30.129
here.

660
00:21:30.130 --> 00:21:31.839
And within that it's like a four

661
00:21:31.840 --> 00:21:33.939
channel sort of sound piece set

662
00:21:33.940 --> 00:21:35.679
within this monumental wall lit from

663
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:37.779
inside, and within

664
00:21:37.780 --> 00:21:39.459
it, sort of like excerpts from the

665
00:21:39.460 --> 00:21:41.289
archive, which is like diary

666
00:21:41.290 --> 00:21:43.149
entries, but also just

667
00:21:43.150 --> 00:21:45.009
like different publications from

668
00:21:45.010 --> 00:21:46.099
within German,

669
00:21:47.380 --> 00:21:48.739
different recollections.

670
00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:50.739
It's a lot about like, as,

671
00:21:50.740 --> 00:21:52.629
like, ten was saying it's

672
00:21:52.630 --> 00:21:54.489
a lot of like banal, sort

673
00:21:54.490 --> 00:21:55.959
of like boring things like these,

674
00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:57.669
all these narratives that also never

675
00:21:57.670 --> 00:21:59.559
get sort of valorized and sort of

676
00:21:59.560 --> 00:22:01.659
looked over basically,

677
00:22:01.660 --> 00:22:02.949
usually coming from people like

678
00:22:02.950 --> 00:22:05.319
teenagers or like older women

679
00:22:05.320 --> 00:22:07.059
and like these stories that just

680
00:22:07.060 --> 00:22:08.979
don't fit into sort of like a

681
00:22:08.980 --> 00:22:10.359
heroic nationalism.

682
00:22:13.090 --> 00:22:14.349
Also, when we were looking in the

683
00:22:14.350 --> 00:22:16.389
archive, we

684
00:22:16.390 --> 00:22:18.369
came across some images from

685
00:22:18.370 --> 00:22:20.499
this photo studio.

686
00:22:20.500 --> 00:22:22.509
Toyomi a Takei and

687
00:22:22.510 --> 00:22:23.539
Tomo Takei.

688
00:22:23.540 --> 00:22:25.449
I believe this year is

689
00:22:25.450 --> 00:22:27.219
the 100 year anniversary of the

690
00:22:27.220 --> 00:22:28.839
photo studio itself, which still

691
00:22:28.840 --> 00:22:29.840
exist in L.A.

692
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:32.240
And during,

693
00:22:33.190 --> 00:22:35.139
that time in 1942, during

694
00:22:35.140 --> 00:22:37.599
internment, toyomi a talk

695
00:22:37.600 --> 00:22:39.549
was incarcerated in Manzanar,

696
00:22:39.550 --> 00:22:42.309
and he had snuck,

697
00:22:42.310 --> 00:22:44.349
a pinhole camera into the camps.

698
00:22:44.350 --> 00:22:46.119
And so a lot of the images that you

699
00:22:46.120 --> 00:22:47.619
kind of see back during that time in

700
00:22:47.620 --> 00:22:49.779
Manzanar, taken by him.

701
00:22:49.780 --> 00:22:51.459
And it was illegal at the time.

702
00:22:51.460 --> 00:22:53.499
So there were sort of like us

703
00:22:53.500 --> 00:22:55.239
government people taking

704
00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:57.249
documentation of the camps itself.

705
00:22:57.250 --> 00:22:59.169
But he was actually one of the

706
00:22:59.170 --> 00:23:00.909
it's still some of the only images

707
00:23:00.910 --> 00:23:03.039
coming from, an incarcerated

708
00:23:03.040 --> 00:23:05.769
person. And he,

709
00:23:05.770 --> 00:23:07.539
took a lot of portraits of people

710
00:23:07.540 --> 00:23:08.799
there.

711
00:23:08.800 --> 00:23:09.639
Things like that.

712
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:11.739
And, even

713
00:23:11.740 --> 00:23:14.949
after the photo studio or after,

714
00:23:14.950 --> 00:23:16.479
the internment, he continued to run

715
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.639
the photo studio, and he still

716
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:20.379
continues to take portraits of some

717
00:23:20.380 --> 00:23:22.239
of the same families that he

718
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:23.529
had shot during that time.

719
00:23:23.530 --> 00:23:25.659
So, for this exhibition,

720
00:23:25.660 --> 00:23:27.279
we decided to collaborate with the

721
00:23:27.280 --> 00:23:28.929
photo studio, which is now run by

722
00:23:28.930 --> 00:23:31.209
the grandson, Allen Mia Takei.

723
00:23:31.210 --> 00:23:33.279
And, we had brought stuffed

724
00:23:33.280 --> 00:23:34.629
animals that we made for this

725
00:23:34.630 --> 00:23:36.579
project, to

726
00:23:36.580 --> 00:23:38.199
the studio to get portraits made of

727
00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:39.399
them.

728
00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:41.319
So for us, it was sort of this

729
00:23:41.320 --> 00:23:43.569
conceptual endeavor of working with,

730
00:23:43.570 --> 00:23:45.549
you know, this legendary photo

731
00:23:45.550 --> 00:23:47.439
studio that still exist within LA

732
00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:48.440
now.

733
00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:51.819
And it really was us trying to

734
00:23:51.820 --> 00:23:53.109
engage with this sort of, like,

735
00:23:53.110 --> 00:23:55.179
living history, you know, like

736
00:23:55.180 --> 00:23:57.309
Toymakers telling me a target studio

737
00:23:57.310 --> 00:23:59.229
is sort of living history that still

738
00:23:59.230 --> 00:24:01.389
sort of is producing history today,

739
00:24:01.390 --> 00:24:02.949
you know, because he continues to

740
00:24:02.950 --> 00:24:03.950
document,

741
00:24:05.020 --> 00:24:06.579
Japanese, American, Japanese,

742
00:24:06.580 --> 00:24:08.439
American family life.

743
00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:10.149
And they, they take these like,

744
00:24:10.150 --> 00:24:12.009
these, these, the style of

745
00:24:12.010 --> 00:24:13.450
sort of family photography.

746
00:24:14.950 --> 00:24:16.929
And the other thing that we did was,

747
00:24:16.930 --> 00:24:18.909
taking sort of our family of

748
00:24:18.910 --> 00:24:20.799
stuffed animals, also on a road

749
00:24:20.800 --> 00:24:22.629
trip to basically visit

750
00:24:22.630 --> 00:24:24.339
sort of important sites of Japanese

751
00:24:24.340 --> 00:24:26.079
American history.

752
00:24:26.080 --> 00:24:27.669
And taking sort of like snapshot

753
00:24:27.670 --> 00:24:29.589
style photographs of, like, our

754
00:24:29.590 --> 00:24:31.479
road trip together.

755
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:33.009
And that is mostly actually what you

756
00:24:33.010 --> 00:24:34.599
see in the exhibition is,

757
00:24:35.800 --> 00:24:37.689
the hammer sort of addition

758
00:24:37.690 --> 00:24:38.690
to the exhibition.

759
00:24:41.050 --> 00:24:42.909
Oh, I was going

760
00:24:42.910 --> 00:24:44.679
to say the stuffed animals is such

761
00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:46.779
an interesting choice, almost as

762
00:24:46.780 --> 00:24:48.759
stand ins, I think,

763
00:24:48.760 --> 00:24:50.979
for, a very heavy

764
00:24:50.980 --> 00:24:52.300
and loaded history.

765
00:24:53.800 --> 00:24:56.119
You speak a lot about the theorist

766
00:24:56.120 --> 00:24:58.329
saying a guy who thinks

767
00:24:58.330 --> 00:24:59.919
about cuteness in these very

768
00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:01.899
interesting and sort of subversive

769
00:25:01.900 --> 00:25:02.949
ways.

770
00:25:02.950 --> 00:25:04.779
Can you talk about how that

771
00:25:04.780 --> 00:25:07.149
cuteness plays into

772
00:25:07.150 --> 00:25:09.129
the creation of stuffed animals

773
00:25:09.130 --> 00:25:10.959
in your larger practice?

774
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:11.799
Yeah.

775
00:25:11.800 --> 00:25:13.629
So Cienega is someone

776
00:25:13.630 --> 00:25:15.099
we think about a lot or thinking

777
00:25:15.100 --> 00:25:17.079
around cuteness, and she

778
00:25:17.080 --> 00:25:18.699
sort of talks about cuteness as

779
00:25:18.700 --> 00:25:20.799
this, sort of ambivalent

780
00:25:20.800 --> 00:25:21.800
force.

781
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:23.589
You know, when you see something

782
00:25:23.590 --> 00:25:25.629
that's cute, you want to at

783
00:25:25.630 --> 00:25:27.669
once take care of it, but also

784
00:25:27.670 --> 00:25:29.289
destroyed at the same time.

785
00:25:29.290 --> 00:25:30.429
You know, it has this sort of, like,

786
00:25:30.430 --> 00:25:32.289
weird pull that pulls you in

787
00:25:32.290 --> 00:25:33.879
two different directions.

788
00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:35.379
And she sort of thinks about

789
00:25:35.380 --> 00:25:36.489
cuteness. And it's sort of

790
00:25:36.490 --> 00:25:38.439
development in postwar Japan as

791
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:40.359
sort of Japan's reaction to sort

792
00:25:40.360 --> 00:25:43.209
of being, emasculated

793
00:25:43.210 --> 00:25:44.709
post-World War Two, where they

794
00:25:44.710 --> 00:25:45.909
weren't allowed to have a standing

795
00:25:45.910 --> 00:25:47.559
army. And so they're in some sense

796
00:25:47.560 --> 00:25:49.949
very powerful, powerless.

797
00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:51.419
And they sort of like, she thinks

798
00:25:51.420 --> 00:25:53.639
about, like them developing cuteness

799
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:55.589
as a way in which they could sort of

800
00:25:55.590 --> 00:25:57.869
exert this other type of power

801
00:25:57.870 --> 00:25:59.639
where it's like if they weren't able

802
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:02.009
to be strong themselves.

803
00:26:02.010 --> 00:26:03.599
They were

804
00:26:05.670 --> 00:26:07.829
they could sort of like, cause power

805
00:26:07.830 --> 00:26:09.689
into taking care of them in some way

806
00:26:09.690 --> 00:26:11.169
and giving them care.

807
00:26:11.170 --> 00:26:13.289
And, I think we're also interested

808
00:26:13.290 --> 00:26:14.609
in cuteness because,

809
00:26:16.260 --> 00:26:17.699
as Diana was describing it, as this

810
00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:19.949
type of, like, coercion and

811
00:26:19.950 --> 00:26:22.199
even grotesqueness to a cute object

812
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:23.249
of something that is a little

813
00:26:23.250 --> 00:26:25.829
perverse, oftentimes racialized

814
00:26:25.830 --> 00:26:27.779
and like queer people

815
00:26:27.780 --> 00:26:29.789
are described in terms of having

816
00:26:29.790 --> 00:26:31.649
animal like attributes in order

817
00:26:31.650 --> 00:26:33.150
to further dehumanize them.

818
00:26:34.170 --> 00:26:35.849
So working with these, like very

819
00:26:35.850 --> 00:26:37.739
cute, kind of like deformed

820
00:26:37.740 --> 00:26:39.749
stuffed animals is something

821
00:26:39.750 --> 00:26:41.819
that we are interested

822
00:26:41.820 --> 00:26:43.709
in instead of having to directly

823
00:26:43.710 --> 00:26:45.899
represent like a minoritized

824
00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:47.249
subject.

825
00:26:47.250 --> 00:26:48.629
We kind of find this as a slippage

826
00:26:48.630 --> 00:26:50.279
away doing that.

827
00:26:50.280 --> 00:26:52.079
And with this photo series that you

828
00:26:52.080 --> 00:26:53.579
guys are seeing, what we had done

829
00:26:53.580 --> 00:26:55.769
was we made a series of,

830
00:26:55.770 --> 00:26:57.599
I think, 45

831
00:26:57.600 --> 00:27:00.209
stuffed animals, and we

832
00:27:00.210 --> 00:27:02.549
drove around LA during a residency

833
00:27:02.550 --> 00:27:04.529
with them in the trunk of our car,

834
00:27:04.530 --> 00:27:06.359
and we had revisited

835
00:27:06.360 --> 00:27:08.669
a handful of Japanese

836
00:27:08.670 --> 00:27:11.279
or a handful of sites that,

837
00:27:11.280 --> 00:27:13.289
still exist in LA that,

838
00:27:13.290 --> 00:27:15.299
relate to Japanese American history.

839
00:27:15.300 --> 00:27:18.089
So, like, right now you're seeing,

840
00:27:18.090 --> 00:27:20.129
Terminal Island, which is,

841
00:27:20.130 --> 00:27:21.479
a port here in LA.

842
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:23.609
And, before internment,

843
00:27:23.610 --> 00:27:25.439
Japanese community existed

844
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:26.819
there. But then after internment,

845
00:27:26.820 --> 00:27:28.319
that was sort of like bulldozed.

846
00:27:28.320 --> 00:27:30.179
And, the community

847
00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:32.399
never, was rehabilitated

848
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:33.209
after that moment.

849
00:27:33.210 --> 00:27:35.219
So the stuffed animals, again

850
00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:37.589
are kind of, yeah, standards

851
00:27:37.590 --> 00:27:39.569
for people or families as this

852
00:27:39.570 --> 00:27:41.579
kind of. And we use them in a way

853
00:27:41.580 --> 00:27:43.589
that sort of, we

854
00:27:43.590 --> 00:27:45.449
take them on this kind of historical

855
00:27:45.450 --> 00:27:47.609
pilgrimage and revisit these sites

856
00:27:47.610 --> 00:27:49.379
that relate to us.

857
00:27:49.380 --> 00:27:50.219
Yeah.

858
00:27:50.220 --> 00:27:52.049
Other sites include Santa Anita,

859
00:27:52.050 --> 00:27:53.939
Manzanar and Little

860
00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:54.940
Tokyo.

861
00:27:55.860 --> 00:27:57.479
Kiyoshi Kamiya, who's like this

862
00:27:57.480 --> 00:27:59.789
prolific, HIV activist

863
00:27:59.790 --> 00:28:01.619
and antiwar activist grave

864
00:28:01.620 --> 00:28:02.620
in Monrovia,

865
00:28:03.900 --> 00:28:05.369
and other places I can't remember

866
00:28:05.370 --> 00:28:05.999
right now.

867
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.469
Angel Island, angel Island.

868
00:28:07.470 --> 00:28:08.470
Yeah, yeah.

869
00:28:09.620 --> 00:28:10.759
And another way in which, like

870
00:28:10.760 --> 00:28:12.679
cuteness shows up is, through

871
00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:13.789
our fashion.

872
00:28:13.790 --> 00:28:15.679
We often use,

873
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:17.509
cute motifs,

874
00:28:17.510 --> 00:28:19.369
and a lot of our clothing

875
00:28:19.370 --> 00:28:20.299
prints.

876
00:28:20.300 --> 00:28:22.219
But then also, we did make a

877
00:28:22.220 --> 00:28:24.689
dress and a collection, kind of in,

878
00:28:24.690 --> 00:28:26.689
homage to comme des Garcons

879
00:28:26.690 --> 00:28:28.969
iconic, 90s collection,

880
00:28:28.970 --> 00:28:30.619
I think, from 97 called Body Meets

881
00:28:30.620 --> 00:28:32.689
Form, where she sort of,

882
00:28:32.690 --> 00:28:34.669
created these tumors.

883
00:28:34.670 --> 00:28:36.139
She wanted to work against, sort of

884
00:28:36.140 --> 00:28:37.969
like the feminization

885
00:28:37.970 --> 00:28:39.679
or the sexualization of female

886
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:40.999
bodies. And she created these

887
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.399
tumors, on these dresses

888
00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:45.199
that became these sort of like

889
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:47.089
grotesque protrusions that sort

890
00:28:47.090 --> 00:28:49.009
of like stood away from the body

891
00:28:49.010 --> 00:28:50.989
and sort of our way of twisting.

892
00:28:50.990 --> 00:28:53.059
That concept was to

893
00:28:53.060 --> 00:28:55.279
make those tumors out of,

894
00:28:55.280 --> 00:28:57.199
these cute stuffed animals and

895
00:28:57.200 --> 00:28:59.059
sort of like, really sort of hone in

896
00:28:59.060 --> 00:29:00.919
on this sort of like ambivalence of,

897
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:02.809
like cuteness that, like,

898
00:29:02.810 --> 00:29:04.579
you can get very grotesque and

899
00:29:04.580 --> 00:29:06.799
gross, but also,

900
00:29:06.800 --> 00:29:08.660
yeah, be something that you love.

901
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:13.129
Can you tell me about the materials

902
00:29:13.130 --> 00:29:15.799
used in the exhibition, specifically

903
00:29:15.800 --> 00:29:17.599
the porcelain and cardboard?

904
00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:20.449
So yeah, cardboard is actually a

905
00:29:20.450 --> 00:29:22.459
material that we use a

906
00:29:22.460 --> 00:29:24.379
lot we've used since the beginning

907
00:29:24.380 --> 00:29:25.279
of our practice.

908
00:29:25.280 --> 00:29:27.139
And I think when we first

909
00:29:27.140 --> 00:29:28.669
started using cardboard, it was in

910
00:29:28.670 --> 00:29:29.839
relation to,

911
00:29:31.280 --> 00:29:32.929
traveling to Southeast Asia, because

912
00:29:32.930 --> 00:29:34.819
if you ever travel to Southeast Asia

913
00:29:34.820 --> 00:29:36.709
and you're on an air, you're at the

914
00:29:36.710 --> 00:29:38.269
airport waiting for your luggage to

915
00:29:38.270 --> 00:29:39.469
come in.

916
00:29:39.470 --> 00:29:40.789
What you'll see is a lot of

917
00:29:40.790 --> 00:29:42.799
cardboard boxes that were checked

918
00:29:42.800 --> 00:29:44.899
in to, the

919
00:29:44.900 --> 00:29:45.889
checked in that's checked in

920
00:29:45.890 --> 00:29:47.269
baggage.

921
00:29:47.270 --> 00:29:49.009
And even Filipinos even have, like,

922
00:29:49.010 --> 00:29:50.599
a very specific name for them.

923
00:29:50.600 --> 00:29:52.429
It's called a balikbayan box.

924
00:29:52.430 --> 00:29:53.959
And it's really sort of like these

925
00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:56.059
people's, like very efficient, cheap

926
00:29:56.060 --> 00:29:58.159
way of transporting

927
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:00.109
commodities from basically

928
00:30:00.110 --> 00:30:01.459
the global north to like their

929
00:30:01.460 --> 00:30:02.899
homeland. And it could be anything

930
00:30:02.900 --> 00:30:04.789
from like toothpaste

931
00:30:04.790 --> 00:30:06.439
to like, random candy to like

932
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:07.440
underwear.

933
00:30:08.900 --> 00:30:10.609
And we also traveled like that,

934
00:30:10.610 --> 00:30:11.749
actually, to when we went to

935
00:30:11.750 --> 00:30:13.579
Vietnam, because it's cheap and

936
00:30:13.580 --> 00:30:15.139
efficient and sort of like Maxim

937
00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:16.969
maximizes the space you can

938
00:30:16.970 --> 00:30:19.219
take, literally, like the max

939
00:30:19.220 --> 00:30:21.079
dimensions. You can check into an

940
00:30:21.080 --> 00:30:22.849
air, an airplane.

941
00:30:24.080 --> 00:30:25.969
And we also liked the fact that

942
00:30:25.970 --> 00:30:28.819
sort of like, the cardboard,

943
00:30:28.820 --> 00:30:30.709
is the sort of skin to a lot

944
00:30:30.710 --> 00:30:32.989
of commodities that travel,

945
00:30:32.990 --> 00:30:34.699
like around the world between a lot

946
00:30:34.700 --> 00:30:35.869
of different countries.

947
00:30:35.870 --> 00:30:37.129
And a lot of our work is sort of

948
00:30:37.130 --> 00:30:38.389
about also the way in which, like,

949
00:30:38.390 --> 00:30:40.279
these commodities help to find

950
00:30:40.280 --> 00:30:41.959
a place and a people and like,

951
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:43.519
become racialized in some sort of

952
00:30:43.520 --> 00:30:44.520
specific way.

953
00:30:45.530 --> 00:30:47.689
And I think also our interested

954
00:30:47.690 --> 00:30:48.690
in cardboard,

955
00:30:49.580 --> 00:30:51.079
we like how sort of universal the

956
00:30:51.080 --> 00:30:52.969
material is and ubiquitous it is

957
00:30:52.970 --> 00:30:54.499
like often we travel and we're able

958
00:30:54.500 --> 00:30:56.149
to make installation or sculptures

959
00:30:56.150 --> 00:30:57.150
with it.

960
00:30:58.250 --> 00:31:00.079
And we just passed by the

961
00:31:00.080 --> 00:31:01.639
last four images, which were

962
00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:04.309
architectural details of,

963
00:31:04.310 --> 00:31:06.559
three locations in New York and

964
00:31:06.560 --> 00:31:08.479
those locations,

965
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:10.489
we had found in the

966
00:31:10.490 --> 00:31:11.839
Archives of Japan Society.

967
00:31:11.840 --> 00:31:13.999
So what we had done was we had gone

968
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:16.109
to, for

969
00:31:16.110 --> 00:31:18.139
addresses that Japan Society

970
00:31:18.140 --> 00:31:20.119
previously occupied, and we made

971
00:31:20.120 --> 00:31:22.279
renderings out of cardboard.

972
00:31:22.280 --> 00:31:23.869
This year you're seeing a chair and

973
00:31:23.870 --> 00:31:26.329
it's, it's a chair from the 1920s

974
00:31:26.330 --> 00:31:28.009
of, the.

975
00:31:28.010 --> 00:31:28.669
Waldorf.

976
00:31:28.670 --> 00:31:29.869
The Waldorf Hotel.

977
00:31:29.870 --> 00:31:31.009
So hotel.

978
00:31:31.010 --> 00:31:31.999
The. Okay.

979
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:33.289
Yeah, either of those.

980
00:31:33.290 --> 00:31:34.999
But basically, Japan Society had

981
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:37.369
organized a lot of their banquets,

982
00:31:37.370 --> 00:31:39.439
during that. So here in that this

983
00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:41.749
exhibition, you're sort of seeing,

984
00:31:41.750 --> 00:31:43.819
cardboard utilized as a way

985
00:31:43.820 --> 00:31:45.799
to sort of form, like

986
00:31:45.800 --> 00:31:47.779
physically form,

987
00:31:47.780 --> 00:31:50.269
like objects of the past and

988
00:31:50.270 --> 00:31:52.099
are interested in bringing,

989
00:31:52.100 --> 00:31:53.100
that kind of,

990
00:31:54.830 --> 00:31:56.689
Gothic architecture into Japan.

991
00:31:56.690 --> 00:31:58.729
Society as, part

992
00:31:58.730 --> 00:32:00.229
of the installation was to sort of

993
00:32:00.230 --> 00:32:02.269
indicate this idea that,

994
00:32:02.270 --> 00:32:03.799
Japan Society is an American

995
00:32:03.800 --> 00:32:06.169
organization has, you know, it's

996
00:32:06.170 --> 00:32:08.029
it's it's equally as

997
00:32:08.030 --> 00:32:09.859
American as it is Japanese, because

998
00:32:09.860 --> 00:32:11.749
at the current moment, it's

999
00:32:11.750 --> 00:32:13.729
it's, designed by a Japanese

1000
00:32:13.730 --> 00:32:16.009
architect. It's a like a historical

1001
00:32:16.010 --> 00:32:17.419
building at the at the moment.

1002
00:32:17.420 --> 00:32:19.999
But I think a lot of people forget,

1003
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:21.649
its past as this American

1004
00:32:21.650 --> 00:32:22.969
organization. So we wanted to

1005
00:32:22.970 --> 00:32:23.970
highlight that

1006
00:32:24.800 --> 00:32:25.159
a lot.

1007
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:26.869
Of our work, deals with

1008
00:32:26.870 --> 00:32:28.279
architecture. None of obviously none

1009
00:32:28.280 --> 00:32:29.899
of us are architects, but a lot of

1010
00:32:29.900 --> 00:32:31.789
our work is thinking about, like,

1011
00:32:31.790 --> 00:32:33.649
the structure of, like,

1012
00:32:33.650 --> 00:32:36.289
the structure of racialization.

1013
00:32:36.290 --> 00:32:38.179
And so it's like when you're

1014
00:32:38.180 --> 00:32:40.159
and like, you'll see if you visit

1015
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:42.049
our, installation at the hammer

1016
00:32:42.050 --> 00:32:43.879
here that we do

1017
00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:45.679
a lot of architectural interventions

1018
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:47.569
with these materials that look quite

1019
00:32:47.570 --> 00:32:49.699
ephemeral, such as cardboard,

1020
00:32:49.700 --> 00:32:51.199
construction plastic and two by

1021
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:53.089
fours and like, you

1022
00:32:53.090 --> 00:32:55.129
know, race

1023
00:32:55.130 --> 00:32:56.629
like sociality, always under

1024
00:32:56.630 --> 00:32:58.489
construction, even in these kind of

1025
00:32:58.490 --> 00:33:00.379
quite concrete looking buildings

1026
00:33:00.380 --> 00:33:02.389
and concrete ideas, too.

1027
00:33:02.390 --> 00:33:04.639
And to get back to Angel's question

1028
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.679
about porcelain, we

1029
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:08.499
had done a project at the risk team.

1030
00:33:08.500 --> 00:33:10.309
Same with this organization, Triple

1031
00:33:10.310 --> 00:33:11.539
Canopy.

1032
00:33:11.540 --> 00:33:12.499
It was one of our first

1033
00:33:12.500 --> 00:33:14.179
institutional projects, and we were

1034
00:33:14.180 --> 00:33:16.159
brought in to specifically

1035
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:18.079
do research around,

1036
00:33:18.080 --> 00:33:19.429
this part of the museum called the

1037
00:33:19.430 --> 00:33:20.959
Pendleton House, which is the first

1038
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:22.819
American wing in the United States.

1039
00:33:23.990 --> 00:33:25.819
And and within this

1040
00:33:25.820 --> 00:33:28.279
wing, there's, Chinese porcelain

1041
00:33:28.280 --> 00:33:29.959
and Chinese furniture.

1042
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:32.029
And this also kind of was

1043
00:33:32.030 --> 00:33:33.529
this collection was also formed

1044
00:33:33.530 --> 00:33:35.089
around the same time, turn of the

1045
00:33:35.090 --> 00:33:37.069
20th century.

1046
00:33:37.070 --> 00:33:38.119
And we were they were.

1047
00:33:38.120 --> 00:33:40.129
So the curators wanted to bring

1048
00:33:40.130 --> 00:33:41.839
us in sort of in thinking about this

1049
00:33:41.840 --> 00:33:44.179
idea of a vaguely Asian because

1050
00:33:44.180 --> 00:33:45.949
because it was American wing and the

1051
00:33:45.950 --> 00:33:47.809
idea that, these

1052
00:33:47.810 --> 00:33:49.669
Chinese objects existed within

1053
00:33:49.670 --> 00:33:51.109
this collection for the past 100

1054
00:33:51.110 --> 00:33:52.669
years but weren't completely

1055
00:33:52.670 --> 00:33:53.869
acknowledged as so.

1056
00:33:53.870 --> 00:33:56.029
So I think with us, it was like

1057
00:33:56.030 --> 00:33:58.669
seeing that the way in which,

1058
00:33:58.670 --> 00:34:01.009
America sort of formulates its

1059
00:34:01.010 --> 00:34:02.869
self-identity, it's always been in

1060
00:34:02.870 --> 00:34:04.939
relation to another and specifically

1061
00:34:04.940 --> 00:34:06.109
China.

1062
00:34:06.110 --> 00:34:07.939
This idea of like a far

1063
00:34:07.940 --> 00:34:10.189
faraway, country that has

1064
00:34:10.190 --> 00:34:11.689
a lot of, like, amazing commodities

1065
00:34:11.690 --> 00:34:13.459
such as porcelain has always been

1066
00:34:13.460 --> 00:34:14.928
kind of an impetus for American

1067
00:34:14.929 --> 00:34:16.009
identity.

1068
00:34:16.010 --> 00:34:17.899
Even today, obviously with

1069
00:34:17.900 --> 00:34:20.029
people's obsession with China.

1070
00:34:20.030 --> 00:34:22.189
We so the way that we form these is

1071
00:34:22.190 --> 00:34:24.198
we, about a bunch of kind

1072
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:25.729
of, like, disparate objects together

1073
00:34:25.730 --> 00:34:27.469
and then with plaster,

1074
00:34:28.610 --> 00:34:30.349
cast the negative space between all

1075
00:34:30.350 --> 00:34:32.299
of these objects, so, and then make

1076
00:34:32.300 --> 00:34:34.279
a mold of that and cast in porcelain

1077
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:35.280
again. So,

1078
00:34:36.110 --> 00:34:38.149
these are these porcelain,

1079
00:34:38.150 --> 00:34:40.129
sculptures are actually kind of like

1080
00:34:40.130 --> 00:34:41.689
ghostly imprints of all these

1081
00:34:41.690 --> 00:34:43.968
objects that formed this space

1082
00:34:43.969 --> 00:34:46.069
between, between the objects

1083
00:34:46.070 --> 00:34:47.448
originally. But none of the objects

1084
00:34:47.449 --> 00:34:49.609
remain. And you can kind of identify

1085
00:34:49.610 --> 00:34:51.408
some of the objects that formed the

1086
00:34:51.409 --> 00:34:53.059
initial cast, but a lot of them

1087
00:34:53.060 --> 00:34:54.678
become so broken and jagged through

1088
00:34:54.679 --> 00:34:56.599
the casting process that it

1089
00:34:56.600 --> 00:34:58.309
becomes unrecognizable.

1090
00:34:58.310 --> 00:34:58.609
Yeah.

1091
00:34:58.610 --> 00:35:00.679
And we sort of like, think about

1092
00:35:00.680 --> 00:35:02.989
these porcelain works in relation

1093
00:35:02.990 --> 00:35:04.610
to an identity.

1094
00:35:05.930 --> 00:35:07.429
Because the way in which they're

1095
00:35:07.430 --> 00:35:08.989
formed is that they're touched by,

1096
00:35:10.160 --> 00:35:12.019
a series of objects, like in the

1097
00:35:12.020 --> 00:35:14.629
way in which people's identities

1098
00:35:14.630 --> 00:35:16.909
are sort of formulated by

1099
00:35:16.910 --> 00:35:19.789
the way in which you respond

1100
00:35:19.790 --> 00:35:20.569
to people.

1101
00:35:20.570 --> 00:35:21.559
It's like a skin.

1102
00:35:21.560 --> 00:35:23.239
It's like a skin that's imperfect

1103
00:35:23.240 --> 00:35:24.240
and kind of torn.

1104
00:36:02.220 --> 00:36:04.799
Oh, she's sweet, but a psycho,

1105
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:06.479
a little bit psycho.

1106
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:07.799
And night she is screaming.

1107
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:09.509
My my my my mind.

1108
00:36:09.510 --> 00:36:11.909
Oh, she's hot but a psycho

1109
00:36:11.910 --> 00:36:13.739
so left. But she's right though

1110
00:36:13.740 --> 00:36:15.739
at night she's screaming my my my my

1111
00:36:15.740 --> 00:36:16.549
my my.

1112
00:36:16.550 --> 00:36:19.169
You know I make you cry

1113
00:36:19.170 --> 00:36:20.909
I see you guessing.

1114
00:36:20.910 --> 00:36:22.769
She rip bishop.

1115
00:36:22.770 --> 00:36:25.079
But then I say I can't go become

1116
00:36:25.080 --> 00:36:26.080
a man.

1117
00:36:26.540 --> 00:36:28.639
Thanks for sticking with

1118
00:36:28.640 --> 00:36:29.929
your play.

1119
00:36:29.930 --> 00:36:31.360
You just can't help enough.

1120
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:33.979
Now.

1121
00:36:33.980 --> 00:36:35.249
You'll play along.

1122
00:36:35.250 --> 00:36:37.609
I'll let it lead you up.

1123
00:36:37.610 --> 00:36:38.859
It was thinking of.

1124
00:36:38.860 --> 00:36:41.259
You know.

1125
00:36:41.260 --> 00:36:42.260
I'm saying.

1126
00:36:43.030 --> 00:36:44.319
Because you're messing with your

1127
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:45.519
head.

1128
00:36:45.520 --> 00:36:47.559
I don't see your swing, but as I

1129
00:36:47.560 --> 00:36:49.839
go a little bit, I go

1130
00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:51.019
at night. What do you mean?

1131
00:36:51.020 --> 00:36:52.539
Oh, my my my my.

1132
00:36:52.540 --> 00:36:54.080
I know she's hot, but.

1133
00:36:55.330 --> 00:36:56.169
I'll take my shoes.

1134
00:36:56.170 --> 00:36:57.039
My go.

1135
00:36:57.040 --> 00:36:58.239
And nice evening.

1136
00:36:58.240 --> 00:37:00.199
All my my my my my

1137
00:37:00.200 --> 00:37:02.079
my cock on accolades.

1138
00:37:02.080 --> 00:37:04.239
Easy points on my pay a

1139
00:37:04.240 --> 00:37:06.249
you people say long, long

1140
00:37:06.250 --> 00:37:07.119
walk away.

1141
00:37:07.120 --> 00:37:09.189
Put me with my girls I

1142
00:37:09.190 --> 00:37:11.469
call a little me psycho.

1143
00:37:11.470 --> 00:37:13.299
And I pulling all my, my,

1144
00:37:13.300 --> 00:37:15.069
my, my my.

1145
00:37:15.070 --> 00:37:16.959
Please don't say,

1146
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:18.009
don't think upon you.

1147
00:37:18.010 --> 00:37:20.529
Since you kiss your neck.

1148
00:37:20.530 --> 00:37:22.419
Ain't knowing more things.

1149
00:37:22.420 --> 00:37:24.309
You see something you

1150
00:37:24.310 --> 00:37:25.279
know you love.

1151
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:27.669
You do you take a free

1152
00:37:27.670 --> 00:37:28.599
bumper car.

1153
00:37:28.600 --> 00:37:29.600
You know.

1154
00:37:30.580 --> 00:37:31.859
No.

1155
00:37:31.860 --> 00:37:33.839
You play along really

1156
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:34.840
easy.

1157
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:36.480
If you say no.

1158
00:37:38.950 --> 00:37:40.779
They saying if you include

1159
00:37:40.780 --> 00:37:42.010
the missing, we don't have.

1160
00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:44.979
Here's all you balance.

1161
00:37:44.980 --> 00:37:47.559
I call and they call me psycho.

1162
00:37:47.560 --> 00:37:48.789
And my calling me.

1163
00:37:48.790 --> 00:37:50.949
Oh my my my my my whole

1164
00:37:50.950 --> 00:37:52.929
t how I go psycho

1165
00:37:52.930 --> 00:37:54.819
slow like my. See some light though.

1166
00:37:54.820 --> 00:37:57.059
And like pulling on my my my

1167
00:37:57.060 --> 00:37:59.169
my my gun type

1168
00:37:59.170 --> 00:38:01.379
I play these it points and

1169
00:38:01.380 --> 00:38:03.359
the hey you people say no

1170
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:05.419
I'm on walk away who

1171
00:38:05.420 --> 00:38:07.419
be who I call

1172
00:38:07.420 --> 00:38:09.219
early, call me psycho.

1173
00:38:09.220 --> 00:38:11.049
And I pulling all my my

1174
00:38:11.050 --> 00:38:13.149
my my my please

1175
00:38:13.150 --> 00:38:14.919
long one same long.

1176
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:16.539
Things are poisons.

1177
00:38:16.540 --> 00:38:18.309
You kiss your neck.

1178
00:38:18.310 --> 00:38:20.139
Ain't knowing more things.

1179
00:38:20.140 --> 00:38:21.879
Come see something.

1180
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:23.769
You know you love this.

1181
00:38:23.770 --> 00:38:26.019
Do you take a three month

1182
00:38:26.020 --> 00:38:27.020
call? You know.

1183
00:38:28.340 --> 00:38:29.599
No.

1184
00:38:29.600 --> 00:38:31.579
You play along really

1185
00:38:31.580 --> 00:38:32.580
easy.

1186
00:38:33.020 --> 00:38:34.230
If you. No.

1187
00:38:35.570 --> 00:38:36.719
My.

1188
00:38:36.720 --> 00:38:38.009
They saying it here?

1189
00:38:38.010 --> 00:38:39.449
You could. My messing was.

1190
00:38:39.450 --> 00:38:40.450
No.

1191
00:38:41.530 --> 00:38:43.569
Please. All you mothers I call

1192
00:38:43.570 --> 00:38:45.549
and they call me psycho at

1193
00:38:45.550 --> 00:38:47.519
night. Pulling on my my my

1194
00:38:47.520 --> 00:38:49.389
my my I always see her

1195
00:38:49.390 --> 00:38:51.219
back as I go slow like

1196
00:38:51.220 --> 00:38:52.569
mine. See some light though.

1197
00:38:52.570 --> 00:38:54.759
And like leaning on my my my

1198
00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:56.589
my my work I

1199
00:38:56.590 --> 00:38:58.479
type, I play these, it points

1200
00:38:58.480 --> 00:38:59.289
on my hands.

1201
00:38:59.290 --> 00:39:01.329
Okay, if people say no, I'm

1202
00:39:01.330 --> 00:39:03.219
gonna walk away, put

1203
00:39:03.220 --> 00:39:04.359
me with my girls.

1204
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:06.999
I call and they call me psycho.

1205
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:09.219
And I pulling all my, my my

1206
00:39:09.220 --> 00:39:11.049
my my please.

1207
00:39:11.050 --> 00:39:12.879
One same thing.

1208
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:14.289
Her poisons.

1209
00:39:14.290 --> 00:39:16.629
You kiss your neck, windowing

1210
00:39:16.630 --> 00:39:17.889
my lungs.

1211
00:39:17.890 --> 00:39:19.629
You see something?

1212
00:39:19.630 --> 00:39:21.539
You know you love you

1213
00:39:21.540 --> 00:39:23.469
do you take a three month

1214
00:39:23.470 --> 00:39:24.699
Google call? You know.

1215
00:39:26.100 --> 00:39:27.379
No.

1216
00:39:27.380 --> 00:39:29.359
You play along really

1217
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:30.360
easy.

1218
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:32.030
If you say no.

1219
00:39:33.310 --> 00:39:34.489
My.

1220
00:39:34.490 --> 00:39:36.319
They saying if you include

1221
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:37.880
the missing, we don't have.

1222
00:39:38.910 --> 00:39:40.459
All this matters.

1223
00:39:40.460 --> 00:39:42.679
Like all the little things like

1224
00:39:42.680 --> 00:39:44.509
home and like spoiling all

1225
00:39:44.510 --> 00:39:47.179
my my my my my, oh

1226
00:39:47.180 --> 00:39:48.439
my the cycle.

1227
00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:50.329
So like my see some light though.

1228
00:39:50.330 --> 00:39:52.519
And my spinning all my my my

1229
00:39:52.520 --> 00:39:54.859
my my weight work I can

1230
00:39:54.860 --> 00:39:57.019
play these if points on

1231
00:39:57.020 --> 00:39:58.849
the beep beep beep on, say no

1232
00:39:58.850 --> 00:40:00.919
I'm on. Walk away.

1233
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:03.409
See what mothers like.

1234
00:40:03.410 --> 00:40:05.249
I'll be fly home at night.

1235
00:40:05.250 --> 00:40:07.229
Pulling all my, my my

1236
00:40:07.230 --> 00:40:08.230
mind.

1237
00:40:10.590 --> 00:40:11.590
Up.

1238
00:40:15.700 --> 00:40:17.769
Please just let me know

1239
00:40:17.770 --> 00:40:19.119
your mind.

1240
00:40:19.120 --> 00:40:21.059
I know, frankly.

1241
00:40:21.060 --> 00:40:22.899
I'm pretty tired.

1242
00:40:22.900 --> 00:40:24.849
You telling me that

1243
00:40:24.850 --> 00:40:26.679
I'm being sang like.

1244
00:40:26.680 --> 00:40:28.539
I'm preparing for you, my

1245
00:40:28.540 --> 00:40:29.540
little.

1246
00:40:30.180 --> 00:40:32.249
Is the way Mother Michael will

1247
00:40:32.250 --> 00:40:34.149
call things like home and like

1248
00:40:34.150 --> 00:40:36.029
swimming. Oh my my my my

1249
00:40:36.030 --> 00:40:38.189
my oh, he's probably

1250
00:40:38.190 --> 00:40:38.999
like home.

1251
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:39.869
So like monster.

1252
00:40:39.870 --> 00:40:40.859
Some white though.

1253
00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:42.939
And like pulling on my my my

1254
00:40:42.940 --> 00:40:44.949
my my my car

1255
00:40:44.950 --> 00:40:46.799
to this point

1256
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:48.089
and my pay the.

1257
00:40:48.090 --> 00:40:50.069
You people say no, I'm gonna

1258
00:40:50.070 --> 00:40:51.579
walk away.

1259
00:40:51.580 --> 00:40:53.999
See we mothers I.

1260
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:55.319
I'll be flying home.

1261
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:57.149
And I mean my my

1262
00:40:57.150 --> 00:40:58.499
my my my.

1263
00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:02.679
Okay. What do you think?

1264
00:41:02.680 --> 00:41:03.719
I sorry.

1265
00:41:03.720 --> 00:41:04.829
I think you just got.

1266
00:41:20.260 --> 00:41:21.260
You.

1267
00:46:23.030 --> 00:46:25.119
La la la la la

1268
00:46:25.120 --> 00:46:26.120
la.

1269
00:46:26.860 --> 00:46:28.859
La la la la la

1270
00:46:28.860 --> 00:46:31.089
la la la I hate

1271
00:46:31.090 --> 00:46:33.539
to see you up on my hair.

1272
00:46:33.540 --> 00:46:35.299
Oh, your.

1273
00:46:35.300 --> 00:46:37.249
All I think about.

1274
00:46:37.250 --> 00:46:39.229
I just hang with you

1275
00:46:39.230 --> 00:46:41.089
over my head.

1276
00:46:41.090 --> 00:46:42.979
Boy, more thing, I

1277
00:46:42.980 --> 00:46:44.840
think to think about.

1278
00:46:45.860 --> 00:46:47.859
But man, la la

1279
00:46:47.860 --> 00:46:48.860
la la.

1280
00:46:49.740 --> 00:46:51.719
La la la la la

1281
00:46:51.720 --> 00:46:54.279
la la la I hate

1282
00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:54.449
you.

1283
00:46:54.450 --> 00:46:56.369
I love my hair.

1284
00:46:56.370 --> 00:46:57.899
Oh your love.

1285
00:46:57.900 --> 00:47:00.119
It's all I think about.

1286
00:47:00.120 --> 00:47:01.949
I just can't get

1287
00:47:01.950 --> 00:47:03.929
you out of my head.

1288
00:47:03.930 --> 00:47:04.859
Boy.

1289
00:47:04.860 --> 00:47:06.449
More thing I think.

1290
00:47:06.450 --> 00:47:07.710
Oh, think about

1291
00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:09.689
my mind.

1292
00:47:09.690 --> 00:47:11.519
La la la la la.

1293
00:47:12.620 --> 00:47:14.599
La la la la la

1294
00:47:14.600 --> 00:47:16.819
la la la I hate.

1295
00:47:16.820 --> 00:47:19.249
To see you out of my hair.

1296
00:47:19.250 --> 00:47:21.619
Oh your love, oh,

1297
00:47:21.620 --> 00:47:23.509
I think about I

1298
00:47:23.510 --> 00:47:25.399
just can't get you out of

1299
00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:26.809
my head.

1300
00:47:26.810 --> 00:47:28.729
Boy. My thing I

1301
00:47:28.730 --> 00:47:30.590
think. Oh, think about.

1302
00:47:31.670 --> 00:47:33.729
La la la la la

1303
00:47:33.730 --> 00:47:34.730
la la.

1304
00:47:35.500 --> 00:47:37.469
La la la la la

1305
00:47:37.470 --> 00:47:39.699
la la la I hate

1306
00:47:39.700 --> 00:47:42.129
to see you up of my hair.

1307
00:47:42.130 --> 00:47:44.499
Oh your love, oh,

1308
00:47:44.500 --> 00:47:46.389
I think about I

1309
00:47:46.390 --> 00:47:48.279
just can't get you out of

1310
00:47:48.280 --> 00:47:49.689
my head.

1311
00:47:49.690 --> 00:47:51.609
Boy, you my thing I

1312
00:47:51.610 --> 00:47:53.469
think. Oh, think about

1313
00:47:54.520 --> 00:47:55.449
my mind.

1314
00:47:55.450 --> 00:47:57.159
La la la la.

1315
00:47:58.380 --> 00:48:00.279
La la la la la

1316
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:02.129
la la la I

1317
00:48:02.130 --> 00:48:03.089
hate you.

1318
00:48:03.090 --> 00:48:05.009
I love my hair.

1319
00:48:05.010 --> 00:48:06.809
Oh your love.

1320
00:48:06.810 --> 00:48:08.759
All I think about

1321
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:10.739
I just can't get you

1322
00:48:10.740 --> 00:48:12.569
out of my hair.

1323
00:48:12.570 --> 00:48:13.499
Boy.

1324
00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:15.089
More thing I think.

1325
00:48:15.090 --> 00:48:16.349
Oh, think about

1326
00:48:17.430 --> 00:48:19.309
my la la la

1327
00:48:19.310 --> 00:48:20.310
la la la.

1328
00:48:21.260 --> 00:48:23.369
La la la la la

1329
00:48:23.370 --> 00:48:25.489
la la. I just can't

1330
00:48:25.490 --> 00:48:26.590
get you out of my.

1331
00:48:47.820 --> 00:48:49.260
So I have one last question.

1332
00:48:52.350 --> 00:48:54.209
Just thinking about collectivity and

1333
00:48:54.210 --> 00:48:56.009
how you all work together.

1334
00:48:56.010 --> 00:48:58.019
How does that elevate the practice

1335
00:48:58.020 --> 00:48:59.873
in the project? That is CFGNY?

1336
00:49:02.070 --> 00:49:03.989
So that

1337
00:49:03.990 --> 00:49:04.990
I had a friend.

1338
00:49:06.390 --> 00:49:08.219
I would say that so as,

1339
00:49:08.220 --> 00:49:10.139
as artists working, you know,

1340
00:49:10.140 --> 00:49:12.569
in, in the art world, you

1341
00:49:12.570 --> 00:49:14.159
all you eventually realize that

1342
00:49:14.160 --> 00:49:16.139
nothing is ever done by yourself.

1343
00:49:16.140 --> 00:49:18.029
There's this myth that artists

1344
00:49:18.030 --> 00:49:19.319
are these singular geniuses

1345
00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:20.909
producing works that reflect their

1346
00:49:20.910 --> 00:49:22.439
own, kind of like their own

1347
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:23.789
exceptionalism. As we talked about

1348
00:49:23.790 --> 00:49:24.719
in this lecture, there's no such

1349
00:49:24.720 --> 00:49:26.309
thing as really exceptionalism.

1350
00:49:26.310 --> 00:49:27.629
So we've all worked for other

1351
00:49:27.630 --> 00:49:29.639
people, for other artists.

1352
00:49:29.640 --> 00:49:31.559
And I think collectivity

1353
00:49:31.560 --> 00:49:32.879
has been a big part of how we

1354
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:34.919
understand, like, like amazing

1355
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:36.689
things to be made with multiple

1356
00:49:36.690 --> 00:49:37.499
people's voices.

1357
00:49:37.500 --> 00:49:39.569
And it also allows for spaces

1358
00:49:39.570 --> 00:49:41.399
of unknowing. And,

1359
00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:43.109
that's what's really important about

1360
00:49:43.110 --> 00:49:44.110
verticality.

1361
00:49:44.640 --> 00:49:46.619
And I think also like, really

1362
00:49:46.620 --> 00:49:48.479
sort of like dovetails with our

1363
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:49.949
interests in like the vaguely Asian

1364
00:49:49.950 --> 00:49:52.199
or like this idea of like racial,

1365
00:49:52.200 --> 00:49:53.969
like sort of working with, like what

1366
00:49:53.970 --> 00:49:55.529
it means to be racialized or like

1367
00:49:55.530 --> 00:49:57.419
working within that space and like,

1368
00:49:57.420 --> 00:49:59.309
yeah, as I said before, that's also

1369
00:49:59.310 --> 00:50:01.049
like race is also the thing that is

1370
00:50:01.050 --> 00:50:02.759
like socially sort of like defined

1371
00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:03.760
by us,

1372
00:50:05.810 --> 00:50:07.889
the US and not us at the same time.

1373
00:50:09.330 --> 00:50:10.769
But it is something that isn't

1374
00:50:10.770 --> 00:50:12.509
coming from one person but is really

1375
00:50:12.510 --> 00:50:14.459
sort of like together we define it.

1376
00:50:14.460 --> 00:50:16.379
And yeah, also like I

1377
00:50:16.380 --> 00:50:18.059
think it also working collectively

1378
00:50:18.060 --> 00:50:19.919
as, the way in which we show our

1379
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:21.059
politics through our work.

1380
00:50:21.060 --> 00:50:22.229
You know, while we might not be

1381
00:50:22.230 --> 00:50:24.359
speaking about like, politics

1382
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:25.889
so directly, I think we're living

1383
00:50:25.890 --> 00:50:27.749
our politics, this more sort of

1384
00:50:27.750 --> 00:50:29.309
like collaborative world that we

1385
00:50:29.310 --> 00:50:30.310
envision.

1386
00:50:31.080 --> 00:50:32.519
Yeah. And I mean, I think working

1387
00:50:32.520 --> 00:50:34.529
collectively just it's been

1388
00:50:34.530 --> 00:50:36.089
really nice because it's, you know,

1389
00:50:36.090 --> 00:50:37.229
you literally have to spend time

1390
00:50:37.230 --> 00:50:38.009
with one another.

1391
00:50:38.010 --> 00:50:39.829
And I think through that time, it's

1392
00:50:39.830 --> 00:50:41.129
just like you're able to have so

1393
00:50:41.130 --> 00:50:43.229
many conversations about, of course,

1394
00:50:43.230 --> 00:50:44.579
your practice and what you're

1395
00:50:44.580 --> 00:50:46.769
making. But then just I think

1396
00:50:46.770 --> 00:50:49.109
politics of life in general and

1397
00:50:49.110 --> 00:50:50.459
we sort of help guide each other

1398
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:51.460
through,

1399
00:50:52.890 --> 00:50:54.089
the art world, but also, yeah,

1400
00:50:54.090 --> 00:50:55.559
through through everything in some

1401
00:50:55.560 --> 00:50:57.449
ways. So I think a

1402
00:50:57.450 --> 00:50:59.399
lot of other art, a lot

1403
00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:01.349
of other artists and friends of

1404
00:51:01.350 --> 00:51:03.239
artist friends of ours are always

1405
00:51:03.240 --> 00:51:04.559
gravitating towards us because we

1406
00:51:04.560 --> 00:51:05.609
are a group, and we're always kind

1407
00:51:05.610 --> 00:51:07.289
of like working and thinking

1408
00:51:07.290 --> 00:51:09.299
together. And we we share

1409
00:51:09.300 --> 00:51:10.829
that space with other people where

1410
00:51:10.830 --> 00:51:12.479
we think and work together

1411
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:14.369
collectively, sort of outside of CF

1412
00:51:14.370 --> 00:51:15.370
generalize well.

1413
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:18.280
Thank you.

1414
00:51:28.370 --> 00:51:30.259
We'd love to open it up to Q&A

1415
00:51:30.260 --> 00:51:31.639
just for a few questions.

1416
00:51:31.640 --> 00:51:32.989
So if you have a question, raise

1417
00:51:32.990 --> 00:51:34.849
your hand and someone will come

1418
00:51:34.850 --> 00:51:35.850
and give you a mic.

1419
00:51:48.180 --> 00:51:49.979
Hey, thanks for coming in, talking

1420
00:51:49.980 --> 00:51:51.420
with us today and sharing.

1421
00:51:52.620 --> 00:51:54.239
I'm wondering how you interpret the.

1422
00:51:54.240 --> 00:51:55.769
Commercial side of fashion.

1423
00:51:55.770 --> 00:51:57.569
Like, to what degree is running a

1424
00:51:57.570 --> 00:51:58.379
business.

1425
00:51:58.380 --> 00:51:58.829
Important.

1426
00:51:58.830 --> 00:52:00.899
To you, or how do you

1427
00:52:00.900 --> 00:52:01.900
play with that?

1428
00:52:03.660 --> 00:52:05.549
We actually kind of, I

1429
00:52:05.550 --> 00:52:07.379
think with.

1430
00:52:07.380 --> 00:52:08.380
Yeah, like,

1431
00:52:09.300 --> 00:52:11.189
we work with a publicist

1432
00:52:11.190 --> 00:52:13.139
and like a stylist who's very

1433
00:52:13.140 --> 00:52:14.069
deep in fashion.

1434
00:52:14.070 --> 00:52:17.459
So, we have fashion presentations,

1435
00:52:17.460 --> 00:52:19.649
we're able to get the support from

1436
00:52:19.650 --> 00:52:21.149
and the visibility in that world,

1437
00:52:21.150 --> 00:52:23.069
but actually, we don't sell retail

1438
00:52:23.070 --> 00:52:24.959
and we only distribute to

1439
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:27.269
direct to consumer.

1440
00:52:27.270 --> 00:52:29.039
And we only distribute sort of on

1441
00:52:29.040 --> 00:52:30.989
our own terms that are on a,

1442
00:52:30.990 --> 00:52:32.099
at our own pace.

1443
00:52:32.100 --> 00:52:33.929
So, our

1444
00:52:33.930 --> 00:52:36.149
clothes are kind of hard to buy.

1445
00:52:36.150 --> 00:52:38.219
And, we

1446
00:52:38.220 --> 00:52:39.719
do it when we do exhibitions.

1447
00:52:39.720 --> 00:52:41.219
So like, the hammer sold some things

1448
00:52:41.220 --> 00:52:42.779
of ours. And when we're in LA, we'll

1449
00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:43.739
kind of bring things around.

1450
00:52:43.740 --> 00:52:46.769
But, we mainly

1451
00:52:46.770 --> 00:52:48.209
rely on sort of institutional

1452
00:52:48.210 --> 00:52:50.459
support and,

1453
00:52:50.460 --> 00:52:51.929
a little bit of the commercial art

1454
00:52:51.930 --> 00:52:53.129
world.

1455
00:52:53.130 --> 00:52:55.379
We also use,

1456
00:52:55.380 --> 00:52:56.909
these moments of sales to kind of

1457
00:52:56.910 --> 00:52:58.529
like fund the rest of our art

1458
00:52:58.530 --> 00:52:59.849
practice, too.

1459
00:52:59.850 --> 00:53:02.009
So it's like when we sell

1460
00:53:02.010 --> 00:53:03.959
garments, it's not just like selling

1461
00:53:03.960 --> 00:53:05.489
garments, it's it's just goes back

1462
00:53:05.490 --> 00:53:07.289
into the studio, and helps us

1463
00:53:07.290 --> 00:53:08.639
produce more work.

1464
00:53:08.640 --> 00:53:10.499
And I think we like selling clothes

1465
00:53:10.500 --> 00:53:12.119
when the on the rare occasion that

1466
00:53:12.120 --> 00:53:13.949
we do, because it's a way

1467
00:53:13.950 --> 00:53:15.569
that other people can kind of like

1468
00:53:15.570 --> 00:53:16.889
take a part of our practice home

1469
00:53:16.890 --> 00:53:18.089
without it being like a very

1470
00:53:18.090 --> 00:53:20.099
expensive sculpture or other

1471
00:53:20.100 --> 00:53:21.719
type of like fine art.

1472
00:53:22.860 --> 00:53:24.239
Because we yeah, we like being

1473
00:53:24.240 --> 00:53:25.240
around people.

1474
00:53:29.520 --> 00:53:30.539
Any other questions?

1475
00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:43.119
I know this sounds a little off, but

1476
00:53:43.120 --> 00:53:45.009
I saw the exhibit twice and

1477
00:53:45.010 --> 00:53:46.599
the fabrication on some of the

1478
00:53:46.600 --> 00:53:48.399
garments. We had this paper that

1479
00:53:48.400 --> 00:53:49.599
looked like it was pulled apart,

1480
00:53:49.600 --> 00:53:51.099
which I didn't see in the fashion

1481
00:53:51.100 --> 00:53:52.779
show this time.

1482
00:53:52.780 --> 00:53:54.759
Was there a thought process

1483
00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:55.929
behind that?

1484
00:53:55.930 --> 00:53:58.659
That's actually, the other artists

1485
00:53:58.660 --> 00:54:00.159
gallery.

1486
00:54:00.160 --> 00:54:02.109
So that would have been his work.

1487
00:54:03.490 --> 00:54:04.719
Yeah. We didn't actually showcase

1488
00:54:04.720 --> 00:54:06.219
that much fashion.

1489
00:54:06.220 --> 00:54:08.229
In this exhibition, I think we use

1490
00:54:08.230 --> 00:54:09.579
moments like this, like a public

1491
00:54:09.580 --> 00:54:11.409
program to activate the space with

1492
00:54:11.410 --> 00:54:12.729
the garments. But actually, in the

1493
00:54:12.730 --> 00:54:14.049
exhibition itself, it's mostly

1494
00:54:14.050 --> 00:54:15.339
sculpture, video, sound,

1495
00:54:15.340 --> 00:54:16.359
installation.

1496
00:54:16.360 --> 00:54:18.219
Or there are a few of our garments

1497
00:54:18.220 --> 00:54:20.379
in the sort of banquet room.

1498
00:54:20.380 --> 00:54:22.269
And we installed them in the

1499
00:54:22.270 --> 00:54:23.949
banquet room as if sort of like

1500
00:54:23.950 --> 00:54:25.239
someone who is wearing G.

1501
00:54:25.240 --> 00:54:27.159
And we was at this banquet and

1502
00:54:27.160 --> 00:54:28.659
had put their jacket down.

1503
00:54:28.660 --> 00:54:30.099
So it was on the back of this

1504
00:54:30.100 --> 00:54:31.879
cardboard chair that we had made, or

1505
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.269
it was draped over a table.

1506
00:54:34.270 --> 00:54:35.499
And it really sort of like.

1507
00:54:35.500 --> 00:54:37.449
Yeah, I think it speaks more

1508
00:54:37.450 --> 00:54:38.859
to the way in which we're engaging

1509
00:54:38.860 --> 00:54:40.779
with clothing as a sort of like

1510
00:54:40.780 --> 00:54:43.059
relational social thing.

1511
00:54:44.560 --> 00:54:45.939
Yeah. Like we prefer to see the

1512
00:54:45.940 --> 00:54:47.679
clothes, like on other people and

1513
00:54:47.680 --> 00:54:49.539
sort of out in the world as a way

1514
00:54:49.540 --> 00:54:51.549
to activate a kind of conversation

1515
00:54:51.550 --> 00:54:52.550
around our practice.

1516
00:54:56.250 --> 00:54:57.269
One last question.

1517
00:55:01.330 --> 00:55:03.279
I have witnessed a number

1518
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:05.229
of artists collectives and

1519
00:55:05.230 --> 00:55:07.209
among the many that I've seen,

1520
00:55:07.210 --> 00:55:08.769
at least in this presentation, you

1521
00:55:08.770 --> 00:55:10.509
guys seem to be very much on the

1522
00:55:10.510 --> 00:55:12.189
same wavelength and how you

1523
00:55:12.190 --> 00:55:13.749
transition from one thought to the

1524
00:55:13.750 --> 00:55:14.750
next with each other.

1525
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:17.259
Maybe I'm wrong.

1526
00:55:17.260 --> 00:55:18.999
Maybe that's your presentation, but

1527
00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:20.559
I'm curious.

1528
00:55:20.560 --> 00:55:21.909
I've come out of kind of a conflict

1529
00:55:21.910 --> 00:55:23.979
resolution background that I studied

1530
00:55:23.980 --> 00:55:25.389
for a number of years.

1531
00:55:25.390 --> 00:55:27.819
How you all resolve

1532
00:55:27.820 --> 00:55:29.199
conflicts within,

1533
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:31.280
your,

1534
00:55:32.200 --> 00:55:33.759
community with or within your

1535
00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:35.499
collective in terms of, like,

1536
00:55:35.500 --> 00:55:37.539
direction or about about

1537
00:55:37.540 --> 00:55:39.459
theme or, or any other

1538
00:55:39.460 --> 00:55:40.779
conflicts that might come up.

1539
00:55:40.780 --> 00:55:42.279
And I'm especially asking because I

1540
00:55:42.280 --> 00:55:43.539
come out of film as well, which

1541
00:55:43.540 --> 00:55:45.309
tends to be very hierarchical.

1542
00:55:45.310 --> 00:55:47.049
So I'm trying to get some ideas on

1543
00:55:47.050 --> 00:55:48.849
how your collective works and how I

1544
00:55:48.850 --> 00:55:49.989
might bring that into my own

1545
00:55:49.990 --> 00:55:50.990
practice.

1546
00:55:51.490 --> 00:55:53.319
I think, one thing

1547
00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:54.639
we were always trying to keep in

1548
00:55:54.640 --> 00:55:56.619
mind is to our guys

1549
00:55:56.620 --> 00:55:58.539
decision making.

1550
00:55:58.540 --> 00:56:00.369
Because as we kind of touched

1551
00:56:00.370 --> 00:56:02.439
on earlier, the art world like,

1552
00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:04.299
well, many, many cultural production

1553
00:56:04.300 --> 00:56:06.069
types of worlds run on these kinds

1554
00:56:06.070 --> 00:56:08.019
of hierarchy and ideas of like,

1555
00:56:08.020 --> 00:56:09.789
intellectual authorship.

1556
00:56:09.790 --> 00:56:11.619
So a lot of the conflicts, we

1557
00:56:11.620 --> 00:56:13.569
just talk it, talk it out

1558
00:56:13.570 --> 00:56:15.519
kind of intensely and we sit on

1559
00:56:15.520 --> 00:56:16.449
it.

1560
00:56:16.450 --> 00:56:18.339
And then, yeah, we decide

1561
00:56:18.340 --> 00:56:19.149
together.

1562
00:56:19.150 --> 00:56:21.069
I also think we all engage

1563
00:56:21.070 --> 00:56:22.629
in the project understanding that

1564
00:56:22.630 --> 00:56:24.459
you're not ever, always going to

1565
00:56:24.460 --> 00:56:26.349
get your way and that like,

1566
00:56:26.350 --> 00:56:28.239
also like the vision of Z of Gen

1567
00:56:28.240 --> 00:56:30.039
Y is going to be different from your

1568
00:56:30.040 --> 00:56:31.179
vision, actually.

1569
00:56:31.180 --> 00:56:32.829
And we all trust each other enough,

1570
00:56:32.830 --> 00:56:34.839
I think, to sort of like allow that

1571
00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:36.069
to happen when it feels like it

1572
00:56:36.070 --> 00:56:36.849
needs to.

1573
00:56:36.850 --> 00:56:38.289
We definitely get into arguments for

1574
00:56:38.290 --> 00:56:39.519
sure, and there's conflict.

1575
00:56:39.520 --> 00:56:40.959
But yeah, it's ten sides.

1576
00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:42.729
Like we just have sometimes very

1577
00:56:42.730 --> 00:56:44.019
intense conversations.

1578
00:56:44.020 --> 00:56:45.939
But yeah, I

1579
00:56:45.940 --> 00:56:47.679
think you just have to go into it

1580
00:56:47.680 --> 00:56:48.759
with the right mindset.

1581
00:56:48.760 --> 00:56:50.649
Also, for it to

1582
00:56:50.650 --> 00:56:51.489
work.

1583
00:56:51.490 --> 00:56:52.569
I think the other thing that's

1584
00:56:52.570 --> 00:56:54.909
really helpful is I do think that,

1585
00:56:54.910 --> 00:56:57.009
like in terms of our long

1586
00:56:57.010 --> 00:56:58.929
term vision, I think we're all kind

1587
00:56:58.930 --> 00:57:00.429
of overlapped pretty well in terms

1588
00:57:00.430 --> 00:57:02.289
of that. So even in

1589
00:57:02.290 --> 00:57:04.329
the moment, if you have

1590
00:57:04.330 --> 00:57:06.009
a disagreement, I think you kind of

1591
00:57:06.010 --> 00:57:07.989
see the end road of it or

1592
00:57:07.990 --> 00:57:09.489
the larger picture of it.

1593
00:57:09.490 --> 00:57:11.469
And often

1594
00:57:11.470 --> 00:57:13.449
what we do and if we're not

1595
00:57:13.450 --> 00:57:15.309
in an understanding with

1596
00:57:15.310 --> 00:57:17.169
one another, we

1597
00:57:17.170 --> 00:57:18.969
sort of like make presentations to

1598
00:57:18.970 --> 00:57:20.979
one another. So if there's an idea,

1599
00:57:20.980 --> 00:57:22.239
we'll say everyone come up with

1600
00:57:22.240 --> 00:57:24.039
three. And then between the three of

1601
00:57:24.040 --> 00:57:25.929
us, we will present nine ideas, and

1602
00:57:25.930 --> 00:57:27.159
then we'll kind of narrow that down.

1603
00:57:27.160 --> 00:57:29.049
And because we've worked together

1604
00:57:29.050 --> 00:57:31.119
for so long, it becomes really clear

1605
00:57:31.120 --> 00:57:32.559
what decision we should make when

1606
00:57:32.560 --> 00:57:33.729
you kind of see it laid out in that

1607
00:57:33.730 --> 00:57:34.839
way.

1608
00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:35.679
Yeah, yeah.

1609
00:57:35.680 --> 00:57:37.659
But it is also, yeah, this language

1610
00:57:37.660 --> 00:57:38.919
that we have developed with each

1611
00:57:38.920 --> 00:57:40.059
other.

1612
00:57:40.060 --> 00:57:41.769
And to find this type of like

1613
00:57:41.770 --> 00:57:43.569
collaborative language is actually

1614
00:57:43.570 --> 00:57:45.099
just, I think also one of the

1615
00:57:45.100 --> 00:57:47.529
hardest steps, in collaborating

1616
00:57:47.530 --> 00:57:49.599
is being able to find people who

1617
00:57:49.600 --> 00:57:51.429
can sort of like, speak or that

1618
00:57:51.430 --> 00:57:52.689
you can develop this collaborative

1619
00:57:52.690 --> 00:57:54.399
language with. And that doesn't

1620
00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:56.049
always happen with people.

1621
00:57:56.050 --> 00:57:57.549
And so, yeah, it's a combination of

1622
00:57:57.550 --> 00:57:59.799
like mindset, but also like

1623
00:57:59.800 --> 00:58:02.139
finding the right wavelength

1624
00:58:02.140 --> 00:58:03.659
that you can tap into.

1625
00:58:03.660 --> 00:58:05.529
And I would also say

1626
00:58:05.530 --> 00:58:06.969
that collaborating, like

1627
00:58:06.970 --> 00:58:08.379
collaborating in the way that we do,

1628
00:58:08.380 --> 00:58:10.509
is more than just collaborating

1629
00:58:10.510 --> 00:58:12.429
ideas. It's like you have to really

1630
00:58:12.430 --> 00:58:14.589
get to know how people

1631
00:58:14.590 --> 00:58:17.109
express their ideas as well as like,

1632
00:58:17.110 --> 00:58:19.149
I don't know, like the, some

1633
00:58:19.150 --> 00:58:21.039
like some way that like

1634
00:58:21.040 --> 00:58:22.389
ten or Daniel will express an idea

1635
00:58:22.390 --> 00:58:23.769
would be vastly different than the

1636
00:58:23.770 --> 00:58:25.089
way that I would express it.

1637
00:58:25.090 --> 00:58:26.739
So you kind of have to learn each

1638
00:58:26.740 --> 00:58:28.239
other's language in that way as

1639
00:58:28.240 --> 00:58:28.989
well.

1640
00:58:28.990 --> 00:58:30.969
Yeah, I think often, like, I'll

1641
00:58:30.970 --> 00:58:32.289
know what the other people will

1642
00:58:32.290 --> 00:58:34.209
answer, what their decision would

1643
00:58:34.210 --> 00:58:36.249
be, and I'll just mine ahead of time

1644
00:58:36.250 --> 00:58:38.529
in relation to that.

1645
00:58:38.530 --> 00:58:39.759
And I would say that, like, this

1646
00:58:39.760 --> 00:58:40.899
kind of seamlessness that you're

1647
00:58:40.900 --> 00:58:42.249
seeing on stage right now isn't

1648
00:58:42.250 --> 00:58:43.089
necessarily just for the

1649
00:58:43.090 --> 00:58:44.979
performance, like even coming to

1650
00:58:44.980 --> 00:58:46.629
LA and driving a car like we all are

1651
00:58:46.630 --> 00:58:48.099
on the insurance and we all take

1652
00:58:48.100 --> 00:58:49.299
turns driving.

1653
00:58:49.300 --> 00:58:51.249
If we go to restaurants like

1654
00:58:51.250 --> 00:58:52.299
it's collaborative, we're like,

1655
00:58:52.300 --> 00:58:53.709
okay, you pick a salad, you pick

1656
00:58:53.710 --> 00:58:55.629
this, and when people join us,

1657
00:58:55.630 --> 00:58:57.399
they're like, wow, okay, this is how

1658
00:58:57.400 --> 00:58:57.699
you got.

1659
00:58:57.700 --> 00:58:59.710
It's more like, oh.

1660
00:59:00.730 --> 00:59:01.810
But yeah, it's real.

1661
00:59:07.420 --> 00:59:09.700
What is CFGNY is that the question?

1662
00:59:12.540 --> 00:59:13.799
That's a good question.

1663
00:59:13.800 --> 00:59:14.800
Which letter?

1664
00:59:16.230 --> 00:59:16.839
I don't know.

1665
00:59:16.840 --> 00:59:18.839
I know it's a Open-Ended acronym,

1666
00:59:18.840 --> 00:59:20.789
actually. So the the kind of

1667
00:59:20.790 --> 00:59:22.259
the name of it changes.

1668
00:59:22.260 --> 00:59:24.119
It's our original

1669
00:59:24.120 --> 00:59:25.709
and sort of main name is concept

1670
00:59:25.710 --> 00:59:27.959
Foreign Garments New York.

1671
00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:29.309
But we also have a bootleg name,

1672
00:59:29.310 --> 00:59:30.599
which is cute fucking gay in New

1673
00:59:30.600 --> 00:59:31.600
York.

1674
00:59:32.490 --> 00:59:33.719
And then we have all these sort of

1675
00:59:33.720 --> 00:59:34.919
like acronyms in between.

1676
00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:36.509
So that changes depending on the

1677
00:59:36.510 --> 00:59:37.510
project itself.

1678
00:59:40.860 --> 00:59:42.780
One last question right there.

1679
00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:49.519
Thank you for the talk.

1680
00:59:50.720 --> 00:59:52.249
I'm on in the student educators

1681
00:59:52.250 --> 00:59:54.469
here, so I do tours of the gallery

1682
00:59:54.470 --> 00:59:56.329
a lot, and I feel like one of

1683
00:59:56.330 --> 00:59:58.279
the two of the main emotions

1684
00:59:58.280 --> 00:59:59.779
that I get when talking about your

1685
00:59:59.780 --> 01:00:01.399
work with visitors is.

1686
01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:02.929
Or like the initial emotion is like

1687
01:00:02.930 --> 01:00:05.089
wonder and also confusion.

1688
01:00:05.090 --> 01:00:06.739
And I feel like that confusion kind

1689
01:00:06.740 --> 01:00:08.359
of enables them to learn more about

1690
01:00:08.360 --> 01:00:09.889
these histories. Of all these

1691
01:00:09.890 --> 01:00:11.929
researches that you guys have done.

1692
01:00:11.930 --> 01:00:13.249
And I was wondering, like what you

1693
01:00:13.250 --> 01:00:15.169
see as the role of the viewer when

1694
01:00:15.170 --> 01:00:16.309
you're making work or if that's

1695
01:00:16.310 --> 01:00:17.569
something or if that's a

1696
01:00:17.570 --> 01:00:19.459
consideration at all, and how you

1697
01:00:19.460 --> 01:00:21.259
might think confusion plays into

1698
01:00:21.260 --> 01:00:22.260
that.

1699
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:24.619
I think confusion is something

1700
01:00:24.620 --> 01:00:26.599
that people frequently express

1701
01:00:26.600 --> 01:00:27.919
when they encounter our work,

1702
01:00:27.920 --> 01:00:29.809
whether it's like,

1703
01:00:29.810 --> 01:00:32.059
like fashion, a fashion presentation

1704
01:00:32.060 --> 01:00:33.979
or sculpture or other things,

1705
01:00:33.980 --> 01:00:35.539
because we do so many things because

1706
01:00:35.540 --> 01:00:37.459
there are actually four of us, and

1707
01:00:37.460 --> 01:00:38.449
all of us come from different

1708
01:00:38.450 --> 01:00:39.450
backgrounds,

1709
01:00:40.280 --> 01:00:41.989
of of making things or of thinking

1710
01:00:41.990 --> 01:00:43.219
about things.

1711
01:00:43.220 --> 01:00:44.629
So I think that confusion is some

1712
01:00:44.630 --> 01:00:46.909
place that we find most fertile

1713
01:00:46.910 --> 01:00:48.859
and where ideas can come from.

1714
01:00:48.860 --> 01:00:50.989
Because what we really are,

1715
01:00:50.990 --> 01:00:53.269
are not interested in is

1716
01:00:53.270 --> 01:00:55.759
a thread of like authenticity,

1717
01:00:55.760 --> 01:00:58.219
or absolute truth of an experience

1718
01:00:58.220 --> 01:01:00.019
or like an identity or anything kind

1719
01:01:00.020 --> 01:01:01.020
of like that.

1720
01:01:02.180 --> 01:01:03.559
Yeah. I think that kind of confusion

1721
01:01:03.560 --> 01:01:05.629
just like it, it's

1722
01:01:05.630 --> 01:01:07.519
a confusion we have to like, it's

1723
01:01:07.520 --> 01:01:08.449
our curiosity.

1724
01:01:08.450 --> 01:01:09.949
So I don't know.

1725
01:01:09.950 --> 01:01:11.929
Yeah. We like I feel like it helps

1726
01:01:11.930 --> 01:01:12.799
us move forward.

1727
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:14.029
You know, I, I often don't

1728
01:01:14.030 --> 01:01:15.469
understand things that we're doing

1729
01:01:15.470 --> 01:01:17.539
and I, I'm thinking about them

1730
01:01:17.540 --> 01:01:18.540
all the time.

1731
01:01:19.950 --> 01:01:22.049
And how would you think about viewer

1732
01:01:22.050 --> 01:01:23.429
I don't know. I'm still trying to

1733
01:01:23.430 --> 01:01:24.509
formulate my answer.

1734
01:01:24.510 --> 01:01:25.349
Yeah.

1735
01:01:25.350 --> 01:01:26.819
So I'm still trying to formulate my

1736
01:01:26.820 --> 01:01:28.199
answer about like thinking about a

1737
01:01:28.200 --> 01:01:29.159
viewer.

1738
01:01:29.160 --> 01:01:31.079
I don't know, I think that I trust

1739
01:01:31.080 --> 01:01:32.879
that because even though we have

1740
01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:34.649
have formed this kind of weird, like

1741
01:01:34.650 --> 01:01:36.539
hive mind between us, I

1742
01:01:36.540 --> 01:01:38.519
do think that because the I

1743
01:01:38.520 --> 01:01:39.719
think about this a lot, the four of

1744
01:01:39.720 --> 01:01:41.339
us are actually so different than

1745
01:01:41.340 --> 01:01:42.239
each other.

1746
01:01:42.240 --> 01:01:44.399
I am not so worried about viewership

1747
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:46.079
when we make a work, because there

1748
01:01:46.080 --> 01:01:48.539
are actually so many different,

1749
01:01:48.540 --> 01:01:49.979
perspectives coming together to

1750
01:01:49.980 --> 01:01:52.529
create a work. And if we can all

1751
01:01:52.530 --> 01:01:53.999
find something that is compelling

1752
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:55.619
about the project that we're working

1753
01:01:55.620 --> 01:01:57.599
on, I think that it will resonate,

1754
01:01:58.830 --> 01:02:00.149
with someone.

1755
01:02:00.150 --> 01:02:01.289
And maybe if it doesn't, it's just

1756
01:02:01.290 --> 01:02:03.159
not the right work for them.

1757
01:02:03.160 --> 01:02:04.160
Yeah.

1758
01:02:05.880 --> 01:02:07.260
And that's a perfect way to end.

1759
01:02:12.740 --> 01:02:14.089
Thank you very much for coming.

1760
01:02:14.090 --> 01:02:14.299
Thank you.

1761
01:02:14.300 --> 01:02:15.300
Very much.

1762
01:02:15.860 --> 01:02:16.860
Thank you.

1763
01:02:18.530 --> 01:02:20.119
I also just want to thank the

1764
01:02:20.120 --> 01:02:22.969
incredible team of models

1765
01:02:22.970 --> 01:02:25.039
and stylists and makeup artists

1766
01:02:25.040 --> 01:02:27.469
and everyone who put this together

1767
01:02:27.470 --> 01:02:28.459
behind the scenes.

1768
01:02:28.460 --> 01:02:29.599
So thank you.

1769
01:02:31.040 --> 01:02:32.659
Thank you always to our public

1770
01:02:32.660 --> 01:02:33.559
programs.

1771
01:02:33.560 --> 01:02:35.359
Who makes incredible things like

1772
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:36.739
this happen.

1773
01:02:36.740 --> 01:02:38.569
And, we're going to have light

1774
01:02:38.570 --> 01:02:40.519
refreshments outside and

1775
01:02:40.520 --> 01:02:42.379
a really incredible drink

1776
01:02:42.380 --> 01:02:44.389
crafted just for tonight

1777
01:02:44.390 --> 01:02:46.999
by Angela de McCalla.

1778
01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:49.039
An incredible chef, based

1779
01:02:49.040 --> 01:02:51.439
here in LA. So thank you.

1780
01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:52.440
Thank you.