Was that gorgeous or
what?
Please join me.
in welcoming
cinematographer Hoyte van Hoytema
and Jenelle Riley.
First doesn't really matter.
Okay, let's do this.
Hey, everyone, thanks so much for
coming out tonight.
So pleased to be here with this
gentleman who is simply the best of
the best.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I mean, honestly, if you had if
you had stopped at Let the Right One
In that, that would have that would
have put you in the pantheon of
greats. But then you continue on
with Dunkirk and Tenet and
her. So again,
congratulations on on keeping the
streak alive.
Thank you. Thank you.
Whenever I have someone as
accomplished as you, I actually love
to go back to the beginning and ask,
you know, where did it all start?
Was there a moment you sort of knew
you wanted to be a director of
photography?
No. No.
Well, I.
Yes, maybe.
Start.
I think. I think I realized
that I wanted to become a director
of photography when I was maybe
12 or 13, maybe.
I think it was.
I was mostly inspired by
a retrospect.
My parents let us sneak
downstairs
sometimes, or we would sneak
downstairs and catch
a Wednesday evening television.
And they were doing a retrospect on
Nicolas Roeg.
Oh, wow.
And I saw three Nicolas Roeg
movies in a row and
not really understanding them.
Sure.
And look, I'm in my 30s
and I don't understand some of them.
So we were 13.
There was a lot of naked.
Yeah. Yeah, of course.
Very interesting for Isabelle, but.
They were very specific.
They were very visual films.
Mm hmm.
And I just remember realizing
at some point somehow that,
you know, doing
things with images and lights
and cameras was actually a thing.
It's actually a thing you could be
good at, or you could actually
do things with it or kind of
tell stories with it.
And I think I always
feel that these Nicolas Roeg movies,
that was kind of for me, the
realization that, you know,
maybe that was something that I
could be interested in.
Was one of them. Don't look now.
It was Don't look now.
Eureka in significance
and bad timing.
I think
I'm one of
these. Yeah, I won
three of these four at least I
saw. I saw all of them.
Eureka. I remember very.
Well. Oh, yeah, that.
That one will stick in your memory.
Well, I know Oppenheimer is, I
believe, your fourth collaboration
with Christopher Nolan.
Correct.
And it seems impossible that you
keep raising the bar every time.
What was through your initial
discussions when he brought you on
the project? Like, does he tell you
I'm working on this idea or do
you just see a full script?
No, he he never he
never reveals what he's working
on. No, he's
he's, he's coming to us when he's
really finished and ready to go,
you know. And the moment that he
tells you, oh, you know, would you
like to read the script, you kind of
know that
you're maybe the week after two
weeks after you're on a plane and
you're scouting.
You know, it's
so so and also
you go into the script kind of
fresh and new.
You don't know anything about it,
you know? So the first thing you
read is the title.
And then you sit in a room
somewhere or at his house
in a special room,
and you and you just
from scratch, you start reading it
and for the first
time and it's usually very
dense reads.
Yeah, the scripts are, you know,
as his films they're, you know,
challenging and just on paper
without visuals.
They, you know, they always take
me a lot of time to to to
get through. But, you
know, and then afterwards he also.
What do you think And usually
I have not so much to say after
that. I'm kind of
floating on my way home And
and yeah, you kind of
straightaway start.
I mean, so you don't have to start
having discussions right there in
the room about the look or anything
you need to.
I mean you do
or from that moment
we, we keep talking about it but,
but I
always feel that when we when we
start a film, we never
start talking about looks or,
you know.
You know, all the technical
difficulties that we want to
overcome, we kind of, we kind of
start very relaxed and,
and
yeah, with very little stress
somehow, you know, he, he,
you know, and that's also something
if you have worked on,
you know, several
films together, you kind of your
prep I always
like to say is like your prep is
kind of the films you did.
Prior to it.
And, you know, we
have never sort of changed
course or looks very,
very radical after
each film.
I always have the feeling that that
all these films are a little bit of
an evolution and,
you know, they kind of amount to
every film amounts towards the next
one, and the next one is kind of a
continuation.
You know, not necessarily story
wise, but definitely in
our approach and, you know,
the way we we like
to make films.
So also thing is, Luke
is in a way very weird
understanding because it kind of
implies, you know, that we sit in a
room and we come up with a
way that this film has to look,
you know, and that we in
a room sort of decide that
everything has to be blue or brown
or green, but it's
not really about that for us.
It's much more about
how we start approaching the story
and how free we want to be.
And, you know,
at some point we start talking about
lenses a lot.
And then when we talk about lenses,
it has a lot to do with,
you know, how
visceral we want things to be.
How close do we want to feel to the
characters? How how
do we want to immerse ourselves
into the story, etc.?
You know?
So it's much more discussions about
depth. We kind of very seldom
used the word
look.
It's it's somehow
look always feels, you know,
superficial to me somehow.
It's like something decorative
in that or it's something, you
know, and I don't, I, we,
we don't we, we try not to think
about our films
like that. Yeah.
Going back to the beginning, because
I think your first film together was
Interstellar, correct?
Was that like, you know, I know
that like, actors have to audition
for roles as, as a DP
Is it is a similar process or
is it just you take a meeting?
I definitely felt
if I needed to audition for it,
I was on another film
with with actually Thomas
the, you know, the director.
I did letter write one
in with, and we're preparing
a kind of a dream
project of ours.
And that film fell apart and,
and I knew that Chris was.
You know, he was preparing something
and he was interviewing the piece.
And I asked
Pete, my agent was here as well
tonight. I asked him, and
are they still meeting people?
Because they had asked earlier for
me and Pete said,
I'll give him a call.
And it turned
out they were interested
in meeting me. So I got on a
plane and
flew all the way to L.A.
and met them
in an increase in
AMA in their office,
spent 50
minutes in a room.
We talked about a lot
of things, but not about
films or about that particular
film. And then
in the evening they asked if I would
come in and read the script and
which I did the next day,
and I was reading that 258
page script as my
plane was kind of on the runway
already warming up motors.
And so
I tried to struggle through that
script. And then after I finished
the script, I maybe had like,
you know, I really had to go.
But of course, Chris wanted to meet
and talk. And I kind
of said, I have a plane and I
got to go and and
I would love to talk more about it,
but I can't.
And and he said, No, no, it's
all good. And and
I got on the plane and then when
I landed, you know,
they decided that they wanted me
to do this job.
Oh, fantastic.
But I also realized later that sort
of the decision was already
made a little bit before or was
when? When, when we met.
You know, he's not somebody that's
frivolously let somebody read
the scripts. That is not
just the point.
And so when it came
to Oppenheimer, I want to make sure
I get this right, because I was getting
reversed,
that there's, you know, one timeline
in color and one in black and white.
And I understand that he had, you
know, specific names for them.
The color one was vision.
And the black and white was fusion.
Was that something again, I don't
know if he writes that into the
script or it's a conversation that
you have at the beginning.
I would love you know, I
would I would love to take
credit for it, but but
it was definitely something that he
wrote already in the script.
So and the division
between black and white in color, it
was for Chris initially
was a way to
clarify the two different
narratives, you know, Strauss's
narrative and Oppenheimer's
narrative and.
And it was very nice to read
it on the page that it was a
big challenge to you to
actually get it done,
you know.
So something I just learned today
and you're probably all much smarter
than me that when it comes to this
this stuff, but that black and white
film did not exist for Imax.
You literally had to go to Kodak.
Yeah. 65 millimeter film
didn't exist.
So we we went to Kodak
and asked if they could make it.
They said.
We're not sure.
But
but they at some point they, they
they actually said that they could
and they or that they that
they were willing to try.
And so they did it.
And they send us at some point
big, big reels of film hadn't
written what was in it, you know.
So they made to
put emulsion on is
65 millimeter black and white strip
film.
And we started testing it.
And then we learned that
it's not just about
them being able to make
the film, but we also found
out that, you know, that film
didn't really work in the cameras
that we had available to us.
So we had to re-engineer
the cameras.
We had to change the gates
of the cameras and the pressure
plates because we got like weird
light artifacts, etc., etc.
Then we had to lap the leopard and
never done it. And they had they,
they didn't have like a,
like a ready available pipeline
for it. So.
So they had to.
You have seriously
rebuild their lab.
They had to install like gigantic
chemistry tanks in which they
could, you know, store
chemicals that they would use for
color in order to, you
know, make space for the black and
white chemicals.
And then for production that we
were planning, they had to be able
to change that
and we had to plan our production
around that as well.
So we had like sections
and periods where we would just
shoot black and whites and then
the lab could,
you know, turn around to color
again and they could test it.
So we needed to break in
several days for them to test and
then go back to color.
And so it was it was
all along the the the
road from from from manufacturing
to actually developing and
printing. It was it was a whole
a whole. McGill It was
And it involved just just really
a lot of people that,
you know, helped us out, you know, I
mean.
So for this movie, you're literally
creating new technologies
essentially in new ways
of doing things.
Yeah, I like the sound, the sound
of it. But, but, but, but
we kind of always do.
We kind of.
It comes a little bit from that idea
that, you know, every
film deserves kind
of its unique
language and its unique
approach.
And, you
know, you very often you can
resorting to sort of off the shelf
solutions, you know like
but but, but, but you very
quickly, you run into your
limitations like
for instance, the Imax camera.
It's it's one of the most beautiful
and biggest negatives in the world.
You know, there's so much depth to
it and it's so special.
And from shooting other films,
you know, you think that being
disclosed to to
a human face with a specific
lens is very special and intimate
and beautiful.
And then you start thinking, but how
would it be on an Imax camera?
That would be. But those lenses
don't exist. So then you start
asking, can you
can you help us?
Can we can you make us can you adapt
lenses or can you build them?
And Panavision, in that case, in
this case, like Dennis Serkis, one
of those magic,
you know, artist
engineers, that is that is always
helping me out with these kind of
problems. And, you know, he has the
ability to actually
build lenses and actually dream
stuff like that up.
And so so we always end
up.
Building stuff to
make things possible that that
we really want or that we really
desire, you know, and
and it comes very
much from, you know, sometimes,
you know, you just kind of pull it
off the shelf. So have to
figure it out.
And I think most people know that
Christopher likes to
forgo as much as you can see guy.
He likes to do things in camera.
Can you talk about working with the
visual effects team and how you
collaborate on certain scenes?
I mean, the obvious one that comes
to mind is the Trinity test,
like pulling that off practically.
Yet when you hear that, do you get
excited or do you get exhausted
or both?
Know, I usually get
excited, but but it's but
it's also, you know,
after you know, for this film
with Chris, you kind of know
that's the modus operandi is
to try to get things in camera
and that's for a variety of reasons.
One of the reasons is, is that
it's of course great for the crew,
but also especially for actors to.
To interact with things that are
tactile and that are real and
and also.
You know, after they shoot.
You very clearly know
what you will have.
And. Since we always watch
dailies and rushes,
you know, the next day
and on on the on the screen,
on film, you also
you see the progress of your film
at the spot.
And you can you can act
and react very much, you know,
every consecutive day.
So it's very, very
productive process for us to do it
that way.
And the other reason is that
if you do things practical in
camera, that means that you.
You don't have to scan it.
And and and if you shoot on a
very big format
and you scan film
in order to do digital effects to
it, that means just
by doing that step, you lose
a tremendous amount of quality.
And if you work on a negative that
can contain like 18
K resolution per frame, you know,
theoretically and
you can scan and you.
You'll, you'll, you'll probably be
working six K or something, you know
if you're, if you're very lucky.
So, so, so
it's for us the best
way to preserve as much
as possible of the original quality
that that that we
that we commit to the film in the
first place.
But now back to your question that
that, of course, has a lot of
implications on the
visual effects team and the special
effects team because instead
of, you know, after film.
You know, have meetings and sit
in glass cubicle and decide how
things are going to be done, they
actually have to figure out stuff on
the set. And and
instead of
building worlds digitally, they have
to think, you know, what the camera
sees and they have to actually
practically build things.
And and
and in a way, it,
it, it requires kind of the same
mind.
But the only thing is that you use
that mind at the same moment
that everybody around on the set
is, is using that mind.
And and also you see your result
directly and.
Andrew Jackson our brilliant
visual effects supervisor,
he was he was 100% on
board with this.
And he was like.
You know, simultaneously when we
were shooting,
you know, scenes for the film, he
was, you know,
on the side with his own little,
you know, team with the camera
and shooting like science
experiments and, you know,
shooting molten metal, dropping
on metal plates and,
you know, swinging ping pong balls
on on wires,
etc., etc..
And so when he
did that, we could then see that
result the next day again in dailies
and we could then react on it and
we could use it and we could, we
could we could give our input.
And he was basically he was like
scraping together
all visual effects elements.
And then, you know, of course
there's there's a lot of visual
effects in this film.
But they all sort of
originated from the same
space as as
where we were, where we were filming
and at the same at the same
moment.
I imagine there's also a lot of
trial and error, like you're
probably figuring it out as you go.
Like, like how long did it take
to plan the Trinity test?
Um.
I mean, how long you
mean in days?
Hours, weeks.
Years.
Um.
Uh.
No, it's always a little bit.
But these big scenes, they they feel
so big on paper and they are so big
in your mind and they're so
big sort of it's like
every time you're you're you're in
front of the Mt. Everest and you
have no idea how you're going to do
things and you have just no, no
idea, you know.
And how how much
it involves and how much people or,
you know, the size
of it is a little too abstract to to
to comprehend.
So. So the best method is
just to sort of start and
that's kind of what we do.
And we start very often with tests,
you know, we camera tests and
for me it has a lot to do with
lights and brightness of lights and
flashing and so on.
And, and, and
then you look at your own tests and
you learn from that a little bit.
And,
you know, we we, we start figuring
things out and usually like, like,
like, like, like I said before and
we kind of figure things out
together and
get these parts from each other
and, and slowly, you
know, we come up with ways to kind
of do it. And then and then there's
the other element as well, is that
Chris is a brilliant editor also in
his mind, you know.
And so,
um, the some
of the of the scope and the
size of it is it's not just
us performing and making that one
thing very big, but it's also, you
know, the sum of all the little
elements and little pieces.
And it really takes a
brilliant director to
on set, you know, put those pieces
already in his mind together, you
know?
Um.
Yeah.
Actually, want to take a couple of
quick questions from the audience.
If we if you have one.
I believe we have ushers here.
Who with? Yeah, just raise your
hand.
Sure we have one right there.
Yes.
Um.
Hello, sir.
Thank you for coming out tonight.
And I
just want to say this is my second
time watching this film.
And still I feel
that the fact that I need to blink
makes me feel like I'm missing out
so much. That's what I like.
That's how much I like this and the
target graphy of this film.
And my question.
And my question is this.
So what is the scene that you
have the most fun shooting?
And I'm leaving the definition
of fun completely up to you.
Thank you.
The most fun.
Yeah, I have not answered
that question for myself yet, so.
Am.
Is it fun? Even when it's hard.
Are you have it?
Yeah, but. But you know, it's it's
it. Yeah.
You have you have crappy days and
you have good days and you know
the day magic fairy often
for for
you know when you make a film is
very often when you have the
least faith and you feel kind of the
shittiest.
And you you you go home and you
think this was a horrible day
and you watch the dailies the next
day. Sometimes you
discover magic things
and and there's something
very special.
And then you have these days
where you think, you know,
everything is just flowing
and your rhythm is right, and you
get everything you want and,
you know, you're sort of flying
and floating through the day and you
and you go home.
You think this was the best day
ever. And you watch the dailies
the next day and they're slightly
disappointing, you know.
Um, but,
but, you know, I think the most
fun is, is actually to,
um.
You know, for me is very often like
a jam session. Like.
Like. Like, you know, I wish I was a
musician, but I
just imagine how it is like.
Like when you're a musician, when
you when you do something that
is very simple and and you're you
have maybe on set a director and an
actor and and
or an actor and an actress
in and you're having a scene
and you're trying to work
things out. You're trying to sort
of, you know, work a little bit on
the mise en scene and things
don't work out necessarily.
But then at some point you just feel
like something something clicks and,
you know, you see a performance
and you have the camera on your
shoulder on a tripod and you look
through the viewfinder and
you just you're witnessing
something that you think is
extremely special.
And that happened
to me more than once on this film,
for instance. It's
and it's it's very often very
simple things.
And I cannot put my finger
on it or I don't know exactly
when that is or what makes
it. But,
you know, sometimes.
You, you are granted
the feeling that you are allowed to
witness a tiny little bit of magic.
You know.
We have time for one more.
Thank you so much for your time.
You talked about technical
challenges when
it came to shooting black and white
and color.
But I want to know if there are any
artistic challenges when you're
shooting what color
in black and white and the same
production.
Ooh, artistic challenges.
Yeah. I mean, if
you if you if you want to
sort of I mean,
technical challenges for me are very
often also very much related to,
to a
Yeah. To, you know, artistic
or creative challenges in that way.
I mean, in our profession,
in a way, the technology
service serves somehow
a very abstract
and creative purpose, right?
It's like you use very complex
technology.
Yeah. To communicate
very basic human feelings.
But relate related to the black
and white and the color, you know.
You know, you have to kind of
think different about light
and about darkness when you
shoot black and white and you should
color.
You know, you you
you know, I when I do black
and white, I squint a lot more, you
know, because because
because, you know,
you kind of have to eliminate
the whole idea of color and the
whole idea of color contrasts, you
know, effectively when you should
black and white green
becomes reds and red becomes
green and becomes it's the same
thing. The film sees it the same.
So you start thinking in a much more
sort of abstract or, you know,
it's much more like a charcoal
drawing in a way.
You know, you kind of, you know,
you kind of, you know,
set up lightness and darkness
and that's kind of how you, how
you how you how your works.