WEBVTT 1 00:00:31.790 --> 00:00:33.589 Father. I stand for God. 2 00:00:33.590 --> 00:00:34.590 And we. 3 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:02.409 And now please join me in giving 4 00:01:02.410 --> 00:01:04.899 a very warm welcome 5 00:01:04.900 --> 00:01:06.259 to Professor Robin D. 6 00:01:06.260 --> 00:01:08.290 G. Kelley and Chinonye Chukwu. 7 00:01:22.380 --> 00:01:23.489 Thank you so much for being here 8 00:01:23.490 --> 00:01:24.490 tonight. 9 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:27.640 Thank you. 10 00:01:30.630 --> 00:01:31.739 How are you all doing? 11 00:01:32.820 --> 00:01:33.820 Hello. Oh. 12 00:01:34.800 --> 00:01:35.969 Hi. 13 00:01:35.970 --> 00:01:36.959 Oh, good. Don't. 14 00:01:36.960 --> 00:01:38.849 Don't leave because you're 15 00:01:38.850 --> 00:01:40.289 going to miss something very special 16 00:01:40.290 --> 00:01:42.869 just so you can leave, okay? 17 00:01:42.870 --> 00:01:43.949 And we don't have much time. 18 00:01:43.950 --> 00:01:45.119 I thought we had, like, a lot of 19 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:46.789 time, but we only have about 20 20 00:01:46.790 --> 00:01:48.059 minutes for everything. 21 00:01:48.060 --> 00:01:50.699 I have some questions, first of all. 22 00:01:50.700 --> 00:01:52.559 Oh, this is such a 23 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:54.299 spectacular film. 24 00:01:54.300 --> 00:01:55.349 As I was telling 25 00:01:57.210 --> 00:01:58.679 Tanya, I was. 26 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.659 I seen it like, nine times. 27 00:02:00.660 --> 00:02:02.399 So this is nine time. 28 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:04.229 And so welcome back to The Hammer, 29 00:02:04.230 --> 00:02:06.749 because you were here virtually 30 00:02:06.750 --> 00:02:09.269 when clemency came out and 31 00:02:09.270 --> 00:02:11.639 which is a masterpiece. 32 00:02:11.640 --> 00:02:13.380 Till, of course, is a masterpiece. 33 00:02:14.460 --> 00:02:15.460 And so 34 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:18.269 I'm going to try to avoid the kind 35 00:02:18.270 --> 00:02:19.559 of common questions you get all the 36 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:20.969 time. 37 00:02:20.970 --> 00:02:23.219 Thank you. But I'm going to begin 38 00:02:23.220 --> 00:02:25.749 by answering one question. 39 00:02:25.750 --> 00:02:27.389 Okay. And I'm going to answer the 40 00:02:27.390 --> 00:02:29.369 question that you get all the time. 41 00:02:29.370 --> 00:02:31.259 And that is why has it taken so 42 00:02:31.260 --> 00:02:32.939 long to make a feature film about 43 00:02:32.940 --> 00:02:34.139 this case? 44 00:02:34.140 --> 00:02:35.999 And when I say long, so like, you 45 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:38.159 know, it actually goes back before 46 00:02:38.160 --> 00:02:38.999 Keith Beauchamp. 47 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:41.339 In fact, it goes back to 48 00:02:41.340 --> 00:02:43.319 Mamie signed a contract in 49 00:02:43.320 --> 00:02:45.299 1956 to do 50 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:46.859 a film with J. 51 00:02:46.860 --> 00:02:48.179 Brad Fisher of all people to be a 52 00:02:48.180 --> 00:02:49.169 screenwriter. 53 00:02:49.170 --> 00:02:50.639 But the real reason why I took so 54 00:02:50.640 --> 00:02:52.889 long is because 55 00:02:52.890 --> 00:02:54.779 Tanya is the only 56 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:55.979 director who could have made this 57 00:02:55.980 --> 00:02:57.179 film. 58 00:02:57.180 --> 00:02:58.349 Right. 59 00:02:58.350 --> 00:03:00.389 And it's true. 60 00:03:00.390 --> 00:03:01.589 Now, I'm going to we're going to 61 00:03:01.590 --> 00:03:03.029 find out why. 62 00:03:03.030 --> 00:03:05.039 And Danielle Deadwyler is the only 63 00:03:05.040 --> 00:03:07.019 actress who could have realized your 64 00:03:07.020 --> 00:03:08.699 vision and embodied that vision. 65 00:03:10.620 --> 00:03:12.419 So from now on, that is the answer 66 00:03:12.420 --> 00:03:13.420 to the question. 67 00:03:14.700 --> 00:03:16.559 That is the answer. 68 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:18.389 And, of course, you 69 00:03:18.390 --> 00:03:20.309 know, you have to be a 70 00:03:20.310 --> 00:03:22.469 Nigerian born person 71 00:03:22.470 --> 00:03:24.299 who grew up in Alaska to have the 72 00:03:24.300 --> 00:03:25.580 sensitivity to make this film. 73 00:03:26.730 --> 00:03:29.189 Right. Only you could do that. 74 00:03:29.190 --> 00:03:31.019 So y'all ever met 75 00:03:31.020 --> 00:03:32.819 another Nigerian born, Alaska raised 76 00:03:32.820 --> 00:03:34.439 person? All right. 77 00:03:34.440 --> 00:03:35.969 I have. 78 00:03:35.970 --> 00:03:37.259 In any case, you know, it's I'm 79 00:03:37.260 --> 00:03:38.549 sitting with the most visionary 80 00:03:38.550 --> 00:03:39.929 filmmaker. 81 00:03:39.930 --> 00:03:41.549 You made his feature films. 82 00:03:41.550 --> 00:03:43.889 Two centering black women, never 83 00:03:43.890 --> 00:03:45.719 succumbing to the 84 00:03:45.720 --> 00:03:48.269 trope of the strong black woman, 85 00:03:48.270 --> 00:03:50.399 but instead giving us 86 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:52.379 these amazingly rich, 87 00:03:52.380 --> 00:03:54.509 human, complex women 88 00:03:54.510 --> 00:03:56.489 who are intelligent, vulnerable, 89 00:03:56.490 --> 00:03:58.499 resilient, who are actually 90 00:03:58.500 --> 00:03:59.849 on a journey. 91 00:03:59.850 --> 00:04:01.709 And so I want 92 00:04:01.710 --> 00:04:03.389 to get now into this question. 93 00:04:03.390 --> 00:04:05.099 So we know from the press that the 94 00:04:05.100 --> 00:04:07.259 producers recruited you 95 00:04:07.260 --> 00:04:08.759 to this project after seeing 96 00:04:08.760 --> 00:04:10.739 clemency and 97 00:04:10.740 --> 00:04:11.819 you agreed to do it on certain 98 00:04:11.820 --> 00:04:13.499 conditions. I have two questions. 99 00:04:13.500 --> 00:04:15.509 The first one is, what 100 00:04:15.510 --> 00:04:18.239 were you going to do before 101 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:19.828 till? Because I'm seeing that you 102 00:04:19.829 --> 00:04:21.419 had a project you might have set 103 00:04:21.420 --> 00:04:22.289 aside. 104 00:04:22.290 --> 00:04:24.209 And then the second question 105 00:04:24.210 --> 00:04:27.209 is, what were those conditions? 106 00:04:27.210 --> 00:04:28.210 Yeah. 107 00:04:28.500 --> 00:04:30.899 Well, so 108 00:04:30.900 --> 00:04:33.179 I was 109 00:04:33.180 --> 00:04:35.099 attached to a few other projects 110 00:04:35.100 --> 00:04:36.480 that fell apart 111 00:04:37.710 --> 00:04:39.180 during COVID. 112 00:04:40.250 --> 00:04:42.209 I think a lot of things changed for 113 00:04:42.210 --> 00:04:43.679 a lot of people during COVID. 114 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:45.989 And then 115 00:04:45.990 --> 00:04:47.909 I, I was reluctant to take I was 116 00:04:47.910 --> 00:04:49.799 reluctant to take 117 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:51.599 on till because I just didn't think 118 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:53.309 I was emotionally I'd have the 119 00:04:53.310 --> 00:04:55.139 emotional capacity to do it. 120 00:04:55.140 --> 00:04:56.429 And it wasn't just the subject 121 00:04:56.430 --> 00:04:58.559 matter, but when I made clemency, 122 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.289 my whole life shifted. 123 00:05:01.290 --> 00:05:03.239 After my film won Sundance and 124 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:05.279 I was really thrust into 125 00:05:05.280 --> 00:05:07.439 the business of filmmaking, 126 00:05:07.440 --> 00:05:09.089 the business of this craft that I 127 00:05:09.090 --> 00:05:10.649 love so much and dedicated my life 128 00:05:10.650 --> 00:05:12.719 to. And that was a huge shift. 129 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:14.609 And, you 130 00:05:14.610 --> 00:05:16.439 know, Barbara Broccoli, who's one 131 00:05:16.440 --> 00:05:17.669 of the producers, and Whoopi 132 00:05:17.670 --> 00:05:18.899 Goldberg, who's another producer 133 00:05:18.900 --> 00:05:20.249 there, they're quite persistent 134 00:05:20.250 --> 00:05:21.299 people. 135 00:05:21.300 --> 00:05:23.219 And they said, 136 00:05:23.220 --> 00:05:24.779 We're only making this film with 137 00:05:24.780 --> 00:05:26.219 you. We know you are the person. 138 00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:27.449 So when you're ready. 139 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:30.269 We'll be ready for you. 140 00:05:30.270 --> 00:05:31.439 But if you could be ready now, 141 00:05:31.440 --> 00:05:32.440 that'd be great. 142 00:05:33.990 --> 00:05:35.519 And so I really had to take it. 143 00:05:35.520 --> 00:05:37.109 Took me about a year, year and a 144 00:05:37.110 --> 00:05:39.089 half before I 145 00:05:39.090 --> 00:05:40.079 dove in. 146 00:05:40.080 --> 00:05:42.149 And I had to really emotionally 147 00:05:42.150 --> 00:05:44.309 and spiritually recalibrate 148 00:05:44.310 --> 00:05:46.379 and get myself ready for it. 149 00:05:46.380 --> 00:05:48.779 And I have to say, 150 00:05:48.780 --> 00:05:50.909 when when I was participating 151 00:05:50.910 --> 00:05:51.910 in protests 152 00:05:52.860 --> 00:05:54.839 against police brutality, that was 153 00:05:54.840 --> 00:05:56.369 that was instigated after George 154 00:05:56.370 --> 00:05:58.439 Floyd was was lynched, 155 00:05:59.850 --> 00:06:01.679 that really 156 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:02.849 got me ready. 157 00:06:02.850 --> 00:06:04.139 I was like, you know what? 158 00:06:04.140 --> 00:06:06.509 It was like it just it just 159 00:06:06.510 --> 00:06:08.369 it I just kind of sat straight 160 00:06:08.370 --> 00:06:10.319 up. I'm like, okay, I'm ready 161 00:06:10.320 --> 00:06:11.279 to do this. 162 00:06:11.280 --> 00:06:13.169 The the mission is clear. 163 00:06:13.170 --> 00:06:14.879 Let's go. And then it was just full 164 00:06:14.880 --> 00:06:16.169 steam ahead. 165 00:06:16.170 --> 00:06:17.399 And it's full steam ahead. 166 00:06:17.400 --> 00:06:18.509 And you also laid out some 167 00:06:18.510 --> 00:06:19.979 conditions that is. 168 00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:20.669 Yes. 169 00:06:20.670 --> 00:06:22.529 So sent on me story. 170 00:06:22.530 --> 00:06:25.169 The thing that's the thing that made 171 00:06:25.170 --> 00:06:27.029 the me making 172 00:06:27.030 --> 00:06:29.009 this film a 173 00:06:29.010 --> 00:06:31.079 no brainer was, 174 00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:32.459 you know, when I met the producers, 175 00:06:32.460 --> 00:06:34.319 I knew that the only way that I 176 00:06:34.320 --> 00:06:35.789 was interested in telling the story, 177 00:06:35.790 --> 00:06:37.049 the only way that the story could 178 00:06:37.050 --> 00:06:38.909 really be told is if it is 179 00:06:38.910 --> 00:06:41.219 so explicit, 180 00:06:41.220 --> 00:06:43.469 like exclusively and specifically 181 00:06:43.470 --> 00:06:44.879 focused on Mamie. 182 00:06:44.880 --> 00:06:46.139 She is our protagonist. 183 00:06:46.140 --> 00:06:47.159 It needs to be focused on her 184 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:48.569 emotional point of view. 185 00:06:48.570 --> 00:06:50.399 For without Mamie Till Mobley, we 186 00:06:50.400 --> 00:06:52.049 wouldn't know who Emmett Till was, 187 00:06:52.050 --> 00:06:53.909 and she, a black woman, 188 00:06:53.910 --> 00:06:55.379 needs to be centered in her rightful 189 00:06:55.380 --> 00:06:56.549 place in history. 190 00:06:56.550 --> 00:06:58.649 And black women are so often erased 191 00:06:58.650 --> 00:07:01.229 from the screen, from history, 192 00:07:01.230 --> 00:07:03.149 from especially stories around civil 193 00:07:03.150 --> 00:07:04.559 rights and freedom movements when we 194 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:06.389 are the backbone of those 195 00:07:06.390 --> 00:07:09.389 movements. And so it became 196 00:07:09.390 --> 00:07:11.279 a mission for me to not 197 00:07:11.280 --> 00:07:13.409 only center her, but to humanize 198 00:07:13.410 --> 00:07:15.299 her and to humanize her 199 00:07:15.300 --> 00:07:17.249 in a way that goes so far beyond 200 00:07:17.250 --> 00:07:19.319 the trope of grieving mother 201 00:07:19.320 --> 00:07:21.149 or, you know, the 202 00:07:21.150 --> 00:07:23.039 archetype of that, and 203 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:25.949 to make her a fully realized person 204 00:07:25.950 --> 00:07:28.049 with a life work, 205 00:07:28.050 --> 00:07:30.209 a man, family, church. 206 00:07:30.210 --> 00:07:32.039 And we show her anger 207 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:34.439 as well and her vulnerability 208 00:07:34.440 --> 00:07:36.449 as well, as well as all of these 209 00:07:36.450 --> 00:07:37.499 range of emotions. 210 00:07:37.500 --> 00:07:38.639 And the producers were like, you 211 00:07:38.640 --> 00:07:39.640 know what? 212 00:07:40.290 --> 00:07:42.239 That's what we want as well. 213 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:43.469 I also didn't want to show any 214 00:07:43.470 --> 00:07:45.479 physical violence on screen. 215 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:47.609 It wasn't necessary in order to tell 216 00:07:47.610 --> 00:07:49.199 Mamie Story to show the violence. 217 00:07:49.200 --> 00:07:51.089 I didn't want to do it as a human 218 00:07:51.090 --> 00:07:52.319 being, as a black person. 219 00:07:52.320 --> 00:07:53.279 It was a way that I was going to 220 00:07:53.280 --> 00:07:55.319 show care for audiences as well. 221 00:07:55.320 --> 00:07:57.329 The producers were on board and 222 00:07:57.330 --> 00:07:59.559 working with the studio at Orion, 223 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:01.169 at MGM. I mean, they gave me full 224 00:08:01.170 --> 00:08:02.099 creative autonomy. 225 00:08:02.100 --> 00:08:03.389 The producers really gave me the 226 00:08:03.390 --> 00:08:05.219 space to tell this in 227 00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:06.629 an artful, cinematic way that I 228 00:08:06.630 --> 00:08:08.169 thought it needed to be told in. 229 00:08:08.170 --> 00:08:10.049 And and that's just a dream for 230 00:08:10.050 --> 00:08:12.359 a filmmaker to have that kind of 231 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:13.349 freedom. 232 00:08:13.350 --> 00:08:15.239 Exactly. Were you given a 233 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:17.229 script that you wrote? 234 00:08:17.230 --> 00:08:19.379 I did do a rewrite, a 235 00:08:19.380 --> 00:08:20.169 rewrite on the script. 236 00:08:20.170 --> 00:08:21.809 So there was an existing script that 237 00:08:21.810 --> 00:08:23.820 was written years ago by 238 00:08:24.930 --> 00:08:26.309 one of the two of the producers, 239 00:08:26.310 --> 00:08:28.799 Keith Beauchamp and Mike Riley, and 240 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:30.989 they are producers were very open 241 00:08:30.990 --> 00:08:32.819 to a writer director coming 242 00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:34.619 on board and rewriting and making it 243 00:08:34.620 --> 00:08:36.418 their own right. 244 00:08:36.419 --> 00:08:38.489 Because, you know, knowing 245 00:08:38.490 --> 00:08:40.319 a little bit about the script as it 246 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:42.329 circulated, I know your 247 00:08:42.330 --> 00:08:44.189 rewrites were significant. 248 00:08:44.190 --> 00:08:45.119 Yeah. 249 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:45.539 And I. 250 00:08:45.540 --> 00:08:46.289 Was one. 251 00:08:46.290 --> 00:08:47.290 Yeah. 252 00:08:48.990 --> 00:08:50.879 And, you know, and in many 253 00:08:50.880 --> 00:08:52.829 ways what's significant 254 00:08:52.830 --> 00:08:54.269 because, you know, we talk about 255 00:08:55.620 --> 00:08:57.899 not showing violence and 256 00:08:57.900 --> 00:08:59.129 a lot of that has to do with 257 00:08:59.130 --> 00:09:01.799 protecting community, 258 00:09:01.800 --> 00:09:03.529 but a lot of it also has to do with 259 00:09:03.530 --> 00:09:05.429 the sort of 260 00:09:05.430 --> 00:09:07.379 gravity of the story that 261 00:09:07.380 --> 00:09:09.209 it's on movement, It's 262 00:09:09.210 --> 00:09:11.579 on Mamie as 263 00:09:11.580 --> 00:09:13.439 a movement to 264 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:15.389 her, her transformation. 265 00:09:15.390 --> 00:09:16.859 But actually, let me back up, not 266 00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:18.599 her transformation, but the way she 267 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:21.629 transformed a movement by centering 268 00:09:21.630 --> 00:09:23.549 the fundamental question 269 00:09:23.550 --> 00:09:26.039 of what it means to be 270 00:09:26.040 --> 00:09:27.040 a mother 271 00:09:28.410 --> 00:09:30.269 and to lose a child, 272 00:09:30.270 --> 00:09:32.489 which is always central 273 00:09:32.490 --> 00:09:33.479 in, you know. 274 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:34.859 So I want you to talk a little bit 275 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:36.839 about what you changed 276 00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:38.939 in the script, what it meant 277 00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:41.339 to make it centered on 278 00:09:41.340 --> 00:09:43.679 Mamie Story, both emotionally, 279 00:09:43.680 --> 00:09:45.779 politically, but also 280 00:09:45.780 --> 00:09:47.939 like visually 281 00:09:47.940 --> 00:09:49.199 her point of view. 282 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.359 Yeah, I mean, I, 283 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:54.179 I really believe as a storyteller 284 00:09:54.180 --> 00:09:56.639 that you can tell any story 285 00:09:56.640 --> 00:09:58.379 and have audiences connect to it. 286 00:09:58.380 --> 00:10:00.329 If you really root it in 287 00:10:00.330 --> 00:10:02.399 humanity, if you make 288 00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:04.229 or if you can use 289 00:10:04.230 --> 00:10:06.659 narrative and cinematic techniques 290 00:10:06.660 --> 00:10:09.479 to communicate 291 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:11.399 the what the 292 00:10:11.400 --> 00:10:13.559 what each character is emotionally 293 00:10:13.560 --> 00:10:15.209 navigating, you know? 294 00:10:15.210 --> 00:10:17.189 And so that 295 00:10:17.190 --> 00:10:18.869 was always my focus. 296 00:10:18.870 --> 00:10:21.029 And that 297 00:10:21.030 --> 00:10:23.279 was one of the biggest things 298 00:10:23.280 --> 00:10:25.109 that I made sure 299 00:10:25.110 --> 00:10:27.359 to incorporate into the script, 300 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:28.469 having those moment. 301 00:10:28.470 --> 00:10:30.359 When Marnie is alone 302 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:32.609 and just sitting with herself, 303 00:10:32.610 --> 00:10:34.529 you know, And I knew I was going 304 00:10:34.530 --> 00:10:36.089 to make that very visually 305 00:10:36.090 --> 00:10:37.109 cinematic. 306 00:10:37.110 --> 00:10:38.999 But I but in the writing, it was 307 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:40.859 important to show these 308 00:10:40.860 --> 00:10:42.359 different layers of Mamie when she's 309 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:43.499 with herself, when she's just with 310 00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:44.819 her son, when she's in the 311 00:10:44.820 --> 00:10:46.049 courtroom, when she's with her man, 312 00:10:46.050 --> 00:10:47.759 when she's, you know, they're these 313 00:10:47.760 --> 00:10:49.589 different presentational selves 314 00:10:49.590 --> 00:10:51.539 that she's navigating. 315 00:10:51.540 --> 00:10:53.189 And so that was one of the biggest 316 00:10:53.190 --> 00:10:55.739 ways that I really incorporate. 317 00:10:55.740 --> 00:10:57.629 I really showed her humanity in the 318 00:10:57.630 --> 00:10:59.639 in the script and and 319 00:10:59.640 --> 00:11:00.640 also. 320 00:11:01.540 --> 00:11:03.549 Having these take the relationship 321 00:11:03.550 --> 00:11:05.289 with her father, relationship with 322 00:11:05.290 --> 00:11:07.149 Gene, her relation with her 323 00:11:07.150 --> 00:11:09.309 mother, having those have their own 324 00:11:09.310 --> 00:11:11.469 mini arcs as well 325 00:11:11.470 --> 00:11:14.109 in the story and giving 326 00:11:14.110 --> 00:11:16.209 a complex emotional 327 00:11:16.210 --> 00:11:18.099 depth to all of the supporting 328 00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:19.449 characters as well. 329 00:11:19.450 --> 00:11:20.619 Exactly. And you do it so 330 00:11:20.620 --> 00:11:22.389 beautifully, visually through 331 00:11:22.390 --> 00:11:24.279 composition, the camera and 332 00:11:24.280 --> 00:11:25.539 we'll get to that. 333 00:11:25.540 --> 00:11:27.519 But before that, 334 00:11:27.520 --> 00:11:29.739 let's talk about 335 00:11:29.740 --> 00:11:31.059 the goat. 336 00:11:31.060 --> 00:11:31.879 Daniel That. 337 00:11:31.880 --> 00:11:33.639 Daniel dead one. 338 00:11:33.640 --> 00:11:35.649 And a half. I have to say, full 339 00:11:35.650 --> 00:11:38.169 disclosure, people who know me 340 00:11:38.170 --> 00:11:39.170 know that 341 00:11:39.990 --> 00:11:42.249 unless Daniel's sister's 342 00:11:42.250 --> 00:11:44.139 in the room, there's no bigger 343 00:11:44.140 --> 00:11:46.419 fan than me. 344 00:11:46.420 --> 00:11:47.919 Because I was a fan of Daniel in 345 00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:49.959 2004, when she was my student, 346 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:52.329 walked into my graduate seminar. 347 00:11:52.330 --> 00:11:54.249 I directed her her masters, 348 00:11:54.250 --> 00:11:56.019 one of her master's thesis. 349 00:11:56.020 --> 00:11:58.599 And as you know, she's a polymath. 350 00:11:58.600 --> 00:11:59.829 And I don't say that lightly. 351 00:11:59.830 --> 00:12:01.689 This is someone who 352 00:12:01.690 --> 00:12:03.579 is a visual artist who has shown 353 00:12:03.580 --> 00:12:04.569 her work. 354 00:12:04.570 --> 00:12:06.399 She is a dancer. 355 00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:07.870 She, of course, 356 00:12:08.980 --> 00:12:10.209 cultural studies scholar. 357 00:12:10.210 --> 00:12:11.589 She's a brilliant poet who has a 358 00:12:11.590 --> 00:12:13.359 master's degree in poetry. 359 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:14.619 She's going to be one of the few 360 00:12:14.620 --> 00:12:16.539 people to get both an Academy 361 00:12:16.540 --> 00:12:18.759 Award, a Pulitzer and probably 362 00:12:18.760 --> 00:12:19.689 all kinds of things. 363 00:12:19.690 --> 00:12:20.690 Right. 364 00:12:22.090 --> 00:12:23.679 And she's a revolutionary, 365 00:12:25.300 --> 00:12:27.279 you know. And so 366 00:12:27.280 --> 00:12:30.099 I'm just curious, 367 00:12:30.100 --> 00:12:32.079 obviously, you've shared in 368 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:33.969 in lots of interviews and 369 00:12:33.970 --> 00:12:35.739 other things what it was like to 370 00:12:35.740 --> 00:12:37.209 work with her. 371 00:12:37.210 --> 00:12:38.619 And I love to hear some of those 372 00:12:38.620 --> 00:12:39.639 stories. 373 00:12:39.640 --> 00:12:41.799 But specifically, 374 00:12:41.800 --> 00:12:43.659 I want to know from 375 00:12:43.660 --> 00:12:45.939 your vantage point as a director, 376 00:12:45.940 --> 00:12:47.889 what did she bring to the film 377 00:12:47.890 --> 00:12:49.959 that you hadn't envisaged 378 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:52.479 in in both writing 379 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:53.439 the script? Because I know 380 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:54.939 everything you do is intentional, 381 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:56.619 But then she brings all this 382 00:12:56.620 --> 00:12:58.869 experience and knowledge in art. 383 00:12:58.870 --> 00:12:59.829 Yeah. 384 00:12:59.830 --> 00:13:00.830 Sensibility 385 00:13:02.410 --> 00:13:03.699 and politics. 386 00:13:03.700 --> 00:13:05.619 And I know she's read a lot because 387 00:13:05.620 --> 00:13:07.149 she read a lot in my class. 388 00:13:07.150 --> 00:13:08.529 And she is so smart. 389 00:13:09.670 --> 00:13:10.989 Oh, yes. 390 00:13:10.990 --> 00:13:12.269 I mean, she 391 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:15.249 I knew that she 392 00:13:15.250 --> 00:13:17.019 can hold a screen and command or 393 00:13:17.020 --> 00:13:18.309 command a screen without saying a 394 00:13:18.310 --> 00:13:19.089 word. 395 00:13:19.090 --> 00:13:21.009 I knew that she would be 396 00:13:21.010 --> 00:13:23.199 able to carry this film. 397 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:24.200 But 398 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:27.609 I mean, the testimony 399 00:13:27.610 --> 00:13:28.610 seen 400 00:13:30.460 --> 00:13:31.359 there were eight or nine other 401 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:33.849 setups planned for that scene. 402 00:13:33.850 --> 00:13:35.769 But her coverage 403 00:13:35.770 --> 00:13:37.509 was the first thing that we shot. 404 00:13:37.510 --> 00:13:39.429 And I didn't know she 405 00:13:39.430 --> 00:13:40.749 could do that. 406 00:13:40.750 --> 00:13:42.849 And when she did that, 407 00:13:43.930 --> 00:13:44.979 all of those eight or nine of the 408 00:13:44.980 --> 00:13:46.479 setups went away. 409 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:48.309 And I looked at 410 00:13:48.310 --> 00:13:49.989 my cinematographer, Bobby Bukowski, 411 00:13:49.990 --> 00:13:51.669 and we're like, We're going to do 412 00:13:51.670 --> 00:13:53.529 this in one take called 413 00:13:53.530 --> 00:13:54.579 the studio to make sure they don't 414 00:13:54.580 --> 00:13:56.809 snatch me up at 415 00:13:56.810 --> 00:13:58.299 night. We're about to do a six 416 00:13:58.300 --> 00:14:00.339 minute, 45 second one hour 417 00:14:00.340 --> 00:14:02.229 in the studio film 418 00:14:02.230 --> 00:14:03.819 and they're like, If you believe 419 00:14:03.820 --> 00:14:05.319 it's what needs to be done, it 420 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:06.399 happened. 421 00:14:06.400 --> 00:14:10.029 But she transcends 422 00:14:10.030 --> 00:14:11.259 in this performance. 423 00:14:11.260 --> 00:14:13.239 And she I 424 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:15.129 wasn't I knew she was excellent, but 425 00:14:15.130 --> 00:14:16.959 I mean, she exceeded all 426 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:18.249 expectations. 427 00:14:18.250 --> 00:14:20.109 Not many people can hold 428 00:14:20.110 --> 00:14:22.089 a six minute, 45 second long 429 00:14:22.090 --> 00:14:23.979 take on your face. 430 00:14:23.980 --> 00:14:25.449 Not many people can do that. 431 00:14:25.450 --> 00:14:27.489 And and she that 432 00:14:27.490 --> 00:14:28.929 was what's in the film is a sixth 433 00:14:28.930 --> 00:14:30.879 take but she gave 434 00:14:30.880 --> 00:14:33.189 that level performance 435 00:14:33.190 --> 00:14:35.559 every single take. 436 00:14:35.560 --> 00:14:37.809 I wasn't expecting her to be that 437 00:14:37.810 --> 00:14:39.339 consistently excellent. 438 00:14:39.340 --> 00:14:40.749 And she gives something different 439 00:14:40.750 --> 00:14:43.119 each take. She's not like a robot, 440 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.219 you know. And so, I mean, every take 441 00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:46.299 in the film was excellent. 442 00:14:46.300 --> 00:14:47.199 Excellent. 443 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.539 And so that was a pleasant surprise. 444 00:14:49.540 --> 00:14:51.579 And she's so present and 445 00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:53.859 focused in the moment. 446 00:14:53.860 --> 00:14:55.689 And one of the things 447 00:14:55.690 --> 00:14:57.099 one of the many things I love about 448 00:14:57.100 --> 00:14:58.659 her is that we were really partners 449 00:14:58.660 --> 00:15:00.519 in this. Like, I really felt like I 450 00:15:00.520 --> 00:15:01.749 had a creative partner. 451 00:15:01.750 --> 00:15:03.129 Even to this day, in this whole 452 00:15:03.130 --> 00:15:04.529 journey and that and the, you know, 453 00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:07.809 publicity and press and awards 454 00:15:07.810 --> 00:15:09.249 campaigning and stuff like that, 455 00:15:09.250 --> 00:15:11.239 it's just we're still we still have 456 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:12.909 our are in sync and in rhythm. 457 00:15:12.910 --> 00:15:14.379 Yeah, well, she's the perfect actor 458 00:15:14.380 --> 00:15:16.509 for you because one of the amazing 459 00:15:16.510 --> 00:15:18.339 can you know you remade 460 00:15:18.340 --> 00:15:20.169 filmmaking just so you know that 461 00:15:20.170 --> 00:15:21.969 I mean you remade it and this is one 462 00:15:21.970 --> 00:15:23.709 of the ways you made it. 463 00:15:23.710 --> 00:15:25.509 We made it with clemency and 464 00:15:25.510 --> 00:15:26.649 certainly with tell. 465 00:15:26.650 --> 00:15:28.629 But one of the conventions that 466 00:15:28.630 --> 00:15:30.309 I think you introduced in a very 467 00:15:30.310 --> 00:15:32.979 powerful way is 468 00:15:32.980 --> 00:15:35.499 focusing the camera on 469 00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:37.359 not the speaker, not the 470 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:39.249 source of the words, but 471 00:15:39.250 --> 00:15:41.259 the source of 472 00:15:41.260 --> 00:15:43.089 the what 473 00:15:43.090 --> 00:15:44.919 protagonists or whatever 474 00:15:44.920 --> 00:15:46.929 figure is trying to struggle with 475 00:15:46.930 --> 00:15:48.129 these questions. 476 00:15:48.130 --> 00:15:50.759 And even the scene with 477 00:15:50.760 --> 00:15:53.289 with Mamie in the courtroom, 478 00:15:53.290 --> 00:15:55.119 that's her. But you hear that 479 00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:57.189 you hear the questions off of 480 00:15:57.190 --> 00:15:58.449 the frame. 481 00:15:58.450 --> 00:16:00.489 You see the opening 482 00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:02.879 scene. In the car. 483 00:16:02.880 --> 00:16:04.559 We are. 484 00:16:04.560 --> 00:16:06.749 Daniel's able to tell 485 00:16:06.750 --> 00:16:09.539 do a prelude of the entire film 486 00:16:09.540 --> 00:16:11.909 in about a minute and 45 seconds 487 00:16:11.910 --> 00:16:12.939 with her eyes. 488 00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:13.889 Yep. 489 00:16:13.890 --> 00:16:15.629 And you have the music, the moon 490 00:16:15.630 --> 00:16:16.269 clothes? 491 00:16:16.270 --> 00:16:16.709 Yup. 492 00:16:16.710 --> 00:16:18.929 And that's there. 493 00:16:18.930 --> 00:16:20.879 And there was one other thing that I 494 00:16:20.880 --> 00:16:22.319 just. Oh, no one has to talk a lot 495 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:23.320 about that. 496 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:26.670 The way that the camera, 497 00:16:28.290 --> 00:16:30.179 you know, the way that you have all 498 00:16:30.180 --> 00:16:31.729 these shots with. 499 00:16:31.730 --> 00:16:32.999 There's no words. 500 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:35.249 That's not in the script. 501 00:16:35.250 --> 00:16:37.499 Right. There may be some direction, 502 00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:38.669 but this is something you're 503 00:16:38.670 --> 00:16:41.099 creating with her on the spot. 504 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:42.059 And of course, you do it with 505 00:16:42.060 --> 00:16:43.439 clemency. 506 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.269 That scene where Alfre 507 00:16:45.270 --> 00:16:47.189 Woodard is off camera 508 00:16:47.190 --> 00:16:49.079 and you see, you 509 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:50.939 know, Anthony Aldis 510 00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:53.429 Hodge, you know, hearing 511 00:16:53.430 --> 00:16:55.259 the protocols of 512 00:16:55.260 --> 00:16:57.809 of what it means to be executed 513 00:16:57.810 --> 00:16:59.849 and you see his face in the tear 514 00:16:59.850 --> 00:17:01.049 comes out. 515 00:17:01.050 --> 00:17:03.029 I mean, that I 516 00:17:03.030 --> 00:17:04.230 associate that with you. 517 00:17:05.490 --> 00:17:06.630 So talk about. 518 00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:09.629 That that particular convention, 519 00:17:09.630 --> 00:17:11.549 what it does, why it's 520 00:17:11.550 --> 00:17:12.779 a really important part of your 521 00:17:12.780 --> 00:17:14.699 filmmaking and 522 00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:16.439 your inspiration. 523 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:18.088 Well, what I've really been 524 00:17:18.089 --> 00:17:20.009 interrogating in my film, making 525 00:17:20.010 --> 00:17:21.479 these last two films is what are 526 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:23.338 people's emotional experience to the 527 00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:24.749 physical action? 528 00:17:24.750 --> 00:17:26.639 So if we're thinking about the 529 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.399 abduction scene, until 530 00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:31.019 it's not about the physical 531 00:17:31.020 --> 00:17:32.909 abduction like that, but 532 00:17:32.910 --> 00:17:34.409 what it is about is what is the 533 00:17:34.410 --> 00:17:36.179 emotional experience of Preacher and 534 00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:38.309 his family to the abduction. 535 00:17:38.310 --> 00:17:40.409 I don't give a damn about J.W. 536 00:17:40.410 --> 00:17:42.179 and like, I don't care. 537 00:17:42.180 --> 00:17:43.979 And even the music, the note, the 538 00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:45.839 biggest note I gave to my amazing 539 00:17:45.840 --> 00:17:47.699 composer, Abel, because the 540 00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:49.349 first draft of the music, the score 541 00:17:49.350 --> 00:17:51.359 for that scene, it was very 542 00:17:52.530 --> 00:17:54.539 it was like Thriller. 543 00:17:54.540 --> 00:17:55.379 And I was like, No, no, no. 544 00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:57.239 You're scoring to the physical 545 00:17:57.240 --> 00:17:59.399 action. We need to score 546 00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:01.409 to what preacher is feeling we 547 00:18:01.410 --> 00:18:03.629 need to have, because that is the 548 00:18:03.630 --> 00:18:06.449 experience I wanted you all to have 549 00:18:06.450 --> 00:18:08.309 and to for you to feel 550 00:18:08.310 --> 00:18:11.009 that kind of 551 00:18:11.010 --> 00:18:12.869 complexity of emotions, not just 552 00:18:12.870 --> 00:18:14.459 the pain and the sadness, but when 553 00:18:14.460 --> 00:18:16.529 we hold on preacher's face, 554 00:18:16.530 --> 00:18:19.469 when he's look like it's like 555 00:18:19.470 --> 00:18:21.689 I that's how I believe 556 00:18:21.690 --> 00:18:23.909 that you can really have audiences 557 00:18:23.910 --> 00:18:26.129 across identities, across 558 00:18:26.130 --> 00:18:28.109 demographics, be able to 559 00:18:28.110 --> 00:18:30.059 connect to a 560 00:18:30.060 --> 00:18:32.249 scene or connect to a film. 561 00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:34.259 And so I really 562 00:18:34.260 --> 00:18:35.879 I started to play with that in 563 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:36.899 clemency. 564 00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:38.099 You know, in those moments that you 565 00:18:38.100 --> 00:18:39.929 talked about at the end of 566 00:18:39.930 --> 00:18:41.549 clemency, there's also there's a 567 00:18:41.550 --> 00:18:43.589 scene when Alfre 568 00:18:43.590 --> 00:18:45.179 Woodard, who's playing a warden, 569 00:18:45.180 --> 00:18:47.339 watching some overseeing someone's 570 00:18:47.340 --> 00:18:48.899 execution in front of her. 571 00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:50.549 Instead of looking at the execution, 572 00:18:50.550 --> 00:18:52.019 we focus on her face throughout the 573 00:18:52.020 --> 00:18:54.089 entire course of the execution, 574 00:18:54.090 --> 00:18:55.619 because that's what that's what 575 00:18:55.620 --> 00:18:57.569 matters. That's the human moment. 576 00:18:57.570 --> 00:18:59.849 And so with Mimi's 577 00:18:59.850 --> 00:19:01.739 testimony, it's not about the 578 00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:03.299 lawyer, you know, it's not about 579 00:19:03.300 --> 00:19:04.769 cutting to all of these different 580 00:19:04.770 --> 00:19:07.199 reactions like it is about Mamie 581 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.329 is navigating that 582 00:19:09.330 --> 00:19:11.489 moment and the pressure mounting 583 00:19:11.490 --> 00:19:13.379 on her and and the tension 584 00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:14.669 building inside of her and her 585 00:19:14.670 --> 00:19:16.259 emotional experience as she's 586 00:19:16.260 --> 00:19:18.089 navigating the interrogation. 587 00:19:18.090 --> 00:19:19.499 That's what I wanted you all to 588 00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:21.539 feel, you know, And so 589 00:19:23.280 --> 00:19:25.199 or even or even, you know, when at 590 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:28.229 the end of Carolyn's damn testimony, 591 00:19:28.230 --> 00:19:30.359 you know, we we, we 592 00:19:30.360 --> 00:19:31.649 remove focus that's on me. 593 00:19:31.650 --> 00:19:33.269 It's like, Oh, I was going to curse. 594 00:19:33.270 --> 00:19:35.089 Sorry, sailor. 595 00:19:35.090 --> 00:19:36.539 It's like, you know, f her, it's 596 00:19:36.540 --> 00:19:38.369 like it's it's it's about Naomi's 597 00:19:38.370 --> 00:19:40.739 emotional experience dismissing 598 00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:41.549 her, you know? 599 00:19:41.550 --> 00:19:43.409 And and so I've really 600 00:19:43.410 --> 00:19:45.269 I've really honed that 601 00:19:45.270 --> 00:19:46.649 because I think that's a much more 602 00:19:46.650 --> 00:19:47.759 visceral. More. 603 00:19:47.760 --> 00:19:48.760 More 604 00:19:51.090 --> 00:19:52.109 complicated. 605 00:19:52.110 --> 00:19:54.119 Yeah. It's it's also more truthful. 606 00:19:54.120 --> 00:19:55.679 It's more just because that that is 607 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:57.059 where the experience. 608 00:19:57.060 --> 00:19:58.319 Yes. Lay. 609 00:19:58.320 --> 00:19:59.969 And that's the real story. 610 00:19:59.970 --> 00:20:00.989 That's the real story. 611 00:20:00.990 --> 00:20:02.849 And that's why you're such a great 612 00:20:02.850 --> 00:20:05.099 storyteller, you know, because 613 00:20:05.100 --> 00:20:06.899 telling stories is not about getting 614 00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:08.069 the right words right. 615 00:20:08.070 --> 00:20:09.629 It's about trying to understand the 616 00:20:09.630 --> 00:20:11.609 arc in the emotions, which you do 617 00:20:11.610 --> 00:20:13.109 beautifully. 618 00:20:13.110 --> 00:20:15.149 I know you have a heart out soon, so 619 00:20:15.150 --> 00:20:17.729 we're going to take some questions. 620 00:20:17.730 --> 00:20:19.929 My other 25 questions 621 00:20:19.930 --> 00:20:20.579 we'll talk about. 622 00:20:20.580 --> 00:20:22.159 We could talk. We can have lunch and 623 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:22.289 dinner. 624 00:20:22.290 --> 00:20:23.369 Yeah, definitely. I look forward to 625 00:20:23.370 --> 00:20:25.229 that. It's like, Oh, now 626 00:20:25.230 --> 00:20:27.089 the ushers have to. 627 00:20:27.090 --> 00:20:28.619 I was told that I can't call on 628 00:20:28.620 --> 00:20:29.620 people, 629 00:20:30.750 --> 00:20:32.249 and so the ushers. 630 00:20:32.250 --> 00:20:33.250 Oh. 631 00:20:34.570 --> 00:20:36.999 So who was 632 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:38.799 right here? Okay. 633 00:20:38.800 --> 00:20:41.029 Yes. Hello. 634 00:20:41.030 --> 00:20:42.759 This. Thanks guy. 635 00:20:42.760 --> 00:20:43.959 This is the second time I've seen 636 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:46.509 this movie, and I think I'm angrier 637 00:20:46.510 --> 00:20:48.459 now because, as people 638 00:20:48.460 --> 00:20:50.289 may know, the LAPD killed three 639 00:20:50.290 --> 00:20:51.819 people in the first three days of a 640 00:20:51.820 --> 00:20:52.820 2023. 641 00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:56.799 I'm furious. 642 00:20:56.800 --> 00:20:59.019 So I'm going to try to be articulate 643 00:20:59.020 --> 00:21:00.020 and crisp. 644 00:21:01.030 --> 00:21:02.829 I have to say, ending. 645 00:21:02.830 --> 00:21:04.269 I mean, it was it's an incredible 646 00:21:04.270 --> 00:21:06.039 film artistically, but also 647 00:21:06.040 --> 00:21:07.989 politically in forcing you 648 00:21:07.990 --> 00:21:09.939 to deal with the universality of 649 00:21:09.940 --> 00:21:11.889 the of the individual deaths, 650 00:21:11.890 --> 00:21:13.239 which obviously is what she had to 651 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:15.219 go through, is there's a celebration 652 00:21:15.220 --> 00:21:17.139 of her son all the way through. 653 00:21:17.140 --> 00:21:19.359 But also you're having to confront 654 00:21:19.360 --> 00:21:21.249 the you know, as again, as 655 00:21:21.250 --> 00:21:23.109 people may know, more black 656 00:21:23.110 --> 00:21:24.129 people have been murdered by the 657 00:21:24.130 --> 00:21:25.509 police than were lynched in the 658 00:21:25.510 --> 00:21:27.399 whole time period that your film 659 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:28.419 is telling the story of. 660 00:21:28.420 --> 00:21:30.609 And I have to pose a question from 661 00:21:30.610 --> 00:21:32.109 the revolutionary leader, Bob 662 00:21:32.110 --> 00:21:33.759 Avakian, who's brought forward a 663 00:21:33.760 --> 00:21:35.559 strategy for an actual revolution in 664 00:21:35.560 --> 00:21:36.579 this country. He wrote a piece 665 00:21:36.580 --> 00:21:38.319 today, actually, about the history 666 00:21:38.320 --> 00:21:39.579 of lynching in this country, and he 667 00:21:39.580 --> 00:21:41.409 says he ends it with the question of 668 00:21:41.410 --> 00:21:43.539 how can any decent person not 669 00:21:43.540 --> 00:21:44.949 think we need to overthrow this 670 00:21:44.950 --> 00:21:46.029 system? 671 00:21:46.030 --> 00:21:47.319 And I would like to just put that 672 00:21:47.320 --> 00:21:48.459 question on the floor, because I 673 00:21:48.460 --> 00:21:49.689 think we have to confront the UN 674 00:21:49.690 --> 00:21:52.139 reform ability of 675 00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:53.739 of the American empire and its 676 00:21:53.740 --> 00:21:55.659 refusal, its inability to 677 00:21:55.660 --> 00:21:57.609 uproot white supremacy. 678 00:21:57.610 --> 00:21:58.610 Thank you very much. 679 00:21:59.980 --> 00:22:00.980 Yeah. 680 00:22:02.410 --> 00:22:03.549 I mean, where to begin? 681 00:22:03.550 --> 00:22:04.550 Yes. 682 00:22:06.460 --> 00:22:07.719 Yeah. I think you have a lot of 683 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:08.889 people who would agree with that. 684 00:22:08.890 --> 00:22:10.719 The question is how to do 685 00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:12.699 that. And I know you have an answer. 686 00:22:12.700 --> 00:22:13.929 I know. I know you have an answer 687 00:22:13.930 --> 00:22:15.159 because I know we've talked lots of 688 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:16.160 time and 689 00:22:17.110 --> 00:22:18.769 but we'll we're going to move on to 690 00:22:18.770 --> 00:22:20.409 to just make sure because we only 691 00:22:20.410 --> 00:22:22.659 have like 6 minutes 692 00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:23.499 for anyone else. 693 00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:24.609 But that's the question that's on 694 00:22:24.610 --> 00:22:25.769 the table. Yeah, I'm in. 695 00:22:25.770 --> 00:22:26.829 The ushers have to take the 696 00:22:26.830 --> 00:22:28.929 question. I can't take it, 697 00:22:28.930 --> 00:22:29.919 even though I could see a lot of 698 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:30.920 hands. 699 00:22:33.130 --> 00:22:34.130 Quite. 700 00:22:36.250 --> 00:22:38.289 My question for you is what was the 701 00:22:38.290 --> 00:22:40.149 intention of and 702 00:22:40.150 --> 00:22:42.069 significance of mirrors in the film 703 00:22:42.070 --> 00:22:43.959 and what did you want it to 704 00:22:43.960 --> 00:22:45.099 do, say, about the characters? 705 00:22:45.100 --> 00:22:46.629 What was your overall intention, 706 00:22:46.630 --> 00:22:47.859 especially for for Mammy's 707 00:22:47.860 --> 00:22:49.329 character? What were you thinking 708 00:22:49.330 --> 00:22:50.859 when you were making those? 709 00:22:50.860 --> 00:22:53.169 What do you think I meant by it? 710 00:22:53.170 --> 00:22:54.999 You can't do that to me. 711 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:56.229 No, no, I. 712 00:22:56.230 --> 00:22:58.119 I think you're definitely thinking 713 00:22:58.120 --> 00:22:59.949 about the character's 714 00:22:59.950 --> 00:23:01.689 reflection, but also the country's 715 00:23:01.690 --> 00:23:03.999 reflection on on a 716 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.469 on the problematic history that we 717 00:23:05.470 --> 00:23:07.329 have and and how 718 00:23:07.330 --> 00:23:08.649 we treat black bodies. 719 00:23:08.650 --> 00:23:09.579 But I really want to know what you 720 00:23:09.580 --> 00:23:10.580 think. 721 00:23:11.780 --> 00:23:12.780 I think 722 00:23:13.690 --> 00:23:16.989 what I'll say, you know, I. 723 00:23:16.990 --> 00:23:18.429 I want I'm more interested in 724 00:23:18.430 --> 00:23:19.359 people's interpretation. 725 00:23:19.360 --> 00:23:20.949 I will say it was very intentional 726 00:23:20.950 --> 00:23:22.119 about the use of mirrors. 727 00:23:22.120 --> 00:23:23.979 And it was something it was a motif 728 00:23:23.980 --> 00:23:25.779 that my cinematographer and I found 729 00:23:25.780 --> 00:23:27.609 while shooting 730 00:23:27.610 --> 00:23:29.439 that we decided to 731 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:31.389 play with and keep in the film. 732 00:23:31.390 --> 00:23:33.009 But I think people have had 733 00:23:33.010 --> 00:23:34.239 different interpretations of it, and 734 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:35.499 I'm more interested in how people 735 00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:37.419 receive it than me 736 00:23:37.420 --> 00:23:38.709 telling you. 737 00:23:38.710 --> 00:23:40.299 Yeah, I know, I know. 738 00:23:41.830 --> 00:23:43.329 There's some mirrors and there's the 739 00:23:43.330 --> 00:23:44.619 domestic spaces. 740 00:23:44.620 --> 00:23:45.620 Those doors, 741 00:23:46.450 --> 00:23:48.399 when you pull out the camera 742 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.709 and we see these domestic spaces 743 00:23:50.710 --> 00:23:53.019 framed, that's very powerful 744 00:23:53.020 --> 00:23:54.269 in terms of what home means. 745 00:23:54.270 --> 00:23:55.089 Yes. You know. 746 00:23:55.090 --> 00:23:56.679 Yep. So thank you. 747 00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:57.999 I shouldn't. I shouldn't say I 748 00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.469 should stop talking. 749 00:23:59.470 --> 00:24:01.149 Okay. Who's next? 750 00:24:01.150 --> 00:24:02.709 I know there's lots of hands, and we 751 00:24:02.710 --> 00:24:03.710 got. 752 00:24:04.150 --> 00:24:05.289 We got 5 minutes. 753 00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:08.849 Thank you so much for this film. 754 00:24:10.950 --> 00:24:13.739 I want to know more about 755 00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:16.169 you and your mother because 756 00:24:16.170 --> 00:24:18.539 we see their relationship with, 757 00:24:18.540 --> 00:24:20.519 you know, many and 758 00:24:20.520 --> 00:24:22.259 Emmett and I. 759 00:24:22.260 --> 00:24:23.789 I would like to know how your 760 00:24:23.790 --> 00:24:25.799 mother, mother you 761 00:24:25.800 --> 00:24:27.719 and parents do to 762 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:29.639 make you 763 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.709 this wonderful screenwriter 764 00:24:31.710 --> 00:24:32.969 and filmmaker. 765 00:24:32.970 --> 00:24:34.320 Thank you. And 766 00:24:35.730 --> 00:24:37.949 what are the qualities that you 767 00:24:37.950 --> 00:24:39.239 would like to share with the 768 00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:41.459 audience on how to nurture 769 00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:42.269 that? 770 00:24:42.270 --> 00:24:43.979 For those in the audience that are 771 00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:45.929 parents or family members 772 00:24:45.930 --> 00:24:47.909 that want to create souls that 773 00:24:47.910 --> 00:24:50.519 tell stories like yours. 774 00:24:50.520 --> 00:24:51.869 Oh, thank you for that. 775 00:24:53.670 --> 00:24:54.670 Oh. 776 00:24:56.310 --> 00:24:58.139 You know, so I grew up I grew 777 00:24:58.140 --> 00:24:59.789 up in Alaska. I grew up in a very 778 00:24:59.790 --> 00:25:02.369 traditional Nigerian household. 779 00:25:02.370 --> 00:25:04.289 I was raised by two 780 00:25:04.290 --> 00:25:06.239 Nigerian immigrants who are African 781 00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:07.199 as hell. 782 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:09.599 And what I mean by that is 783 00:25:09.600 --> 00:25:11.579 when I told them that 784 00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:13.439 I wanted to be a filmmaker, 785 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.359 oh, it did not go over 786 00:25:15.360 --> 00:25:16.360 too well. 787 00:25:17.140 --> 00:25:19.079 They're like, we did not come 788 00:25:19.080 --> 00:25:20.699 to America for this. 789 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:23.909 You're going to be a lawyer or a 790 00:25:23.910 --> 00:25:26.159 doctor or an engineer, 791 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:27.329 and if you're not, then you're going 792 00:25:27.330 --> 00:25:28.650 to pay for film school on your own. 793 00:25:30.510 --> 00:25:32.459 And so, you know, it took some time 794 00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:33.460 for them to come around, 795 00:25:36.090 --> 00:25:37.379 but they did come around. 796 00:25:37.380 --> 00:25:38.819 And now it's a very different story. 797 00:25:38.820 --> 00:25:39.959 They're very supportive and very 798 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.949 proud of me. 799 00:25:40.950 --> 00:25:42.929 But I will say that one 800 00:25:42.930 --> 00:25:44.969 of the greatest qualities my parents 801 00:25:44.970 --> 00:25:47.009 passed on to me was this 802 00:25:47.010 --> 00:25:49.019 unapologetic, 803 00:25:49.020 --> 00:25:50.879 unabashed belief 804 00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:52.919 that I can do anything. 805 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:53.579 Even when. 806 00:25:53.580 --> 00:25:55.559 They like. I remember when my first 807 00:25:55.560 --> 00:25:56.969 feature didn't get into Sundance, I 808 00:25:56.970 --> 00:25:58.469 was depressed and moping around in 809 00:25:58.470 --> 00:25:59.279 the bed. 810 00:25:59.280 --> 00:26:01.319 My father taps 811 00:26:01.320 --> 00:26:02.579 me on my shoulder. He said, Get up. 812 00:26:02.580 --> 00:26:04.079 Don't you know you're a tulku? 813 00:26:04.080 --> 00:26:06.239 I'm like, No sympathy 814 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:07.589 at all. He's like, Get up 815 00:26:08.610 --> 00:26:09.719 and go make another. 816 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:11.699 Like. And so 817 00:26:11.700 --> 00:26:13.859 and they even 818 00:26:13.860 --> 00:26:15.149 to this day, it's just like they're 819 00:26:15.150 --> 00:26:16.439 just like, you can do anything you 820 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:18.449 want. And there 821 00:26:18.450 --> 00:26:20.849 is an impossibility, I think, 822 00:26:20.850 --> 00:26:21.659 to the industry. 823 00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:23.069 That man, you know, and I was a film 824 00:26:23.070 --> 00:26:24.839 professor for ten years and you 825 00:26:24.840 --> 00:26:26.399 know, my students, they all want to, 826 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:28.319 you know, win an Oscar with 827 00:26:28.320 --> 00:26:29.279 their first student film. 828 00:26:29.280 --> 00:26:30.989 Right. And if they don't, then 829 00:26:30.990 --> 00:26:32.069 they're done. 830 00:26:32.070 --> 00:26:34.380 But it's hard for me to. 831 00:26:35.390 --> 00:26:37.099 It's I have to be honest with them. 832 00:26:37.100 --> 00:26:38.869 I'm like most of most people will 833 00:26:38.870 --> 00:26:40.729 not be able to make this a 834 00:26:40.730 --> 00:26:43.129 financially viable profession, 835 00:26:43.130 --> 00:26:44.149 but a few will. 836 00:26:44.150 --> 00:26:46.189 You know, and who knows? 837 00:26:46.190 --> 00:26:48.109 And so it's hard to have that 838 00:26:48.110 --> 00:26:49.459 kind of hope and optimism. 839 00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:51.499 But my parents really instilled 840 00:26:51.500 --> 00:26:53.449 that in myself and my siblings 841 00:26:53.450 --> 00:26:55.189 with anything that we do. 842 00:26:55.190 --> 00:26:57.289 And I will say also, 843 00:26:57.290 --> 00:26:58.639 another thing that they instilled in 844 00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:00.259 me is no matter what, you keep your 845 00:27:00.260 --> 00:27:02.089 head up and don't ever bow 846 00:27:02.090 --> 00:27:03.090 down to anybody. 847 00:27:04.190 --> 00:27:06.199 And that was something that 848 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:07.969 I take with me to this day, you 849 00:27:07.970 --> 00:27:09.409 know, and just like being a person 850 00:27:09.410 --> 00:27:10.879 in the world, but especially a black 851 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:12.969 woman in this industry. 852 00:27:12.970 --> 00:27:14.809 Misogyny. Why this intersection 853 00:27:14.810 --> 00:27:17.089 of racism and sexism 854 00:27:17.090 --> 00:27:18.829 is I mean, people are more 855 00:27:18.830 --> 00:27:20.059 comfortable with me being a mammy, a 856 00:27:20.060 --> 00:27:21.199 mule. They're their own personal 857 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:22.159 entertainment. 858 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:23.659 And if I refuse that, then I'm an 859 00:27:23.660 --> 00:27:24.859 angry black woman. 860 00:27:24.860 --> 00:27:27.139 And so to be able to navigate 861 00:27:27.140 --> 00:27:28.969 that dynamic with keeping my head 862 00:27:28.970 --> 00:27:31.549 up and be willing to walk away 863 00:27:31.550 --> 00:27:33.589 if I'm like, I'm not feeling 864 00:27:33.590 --> 00:27:35.899 safe, protected or valued 865 00:27:35.900 --> 00:27:37.639 in this situation, I'd rather sleep 866 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:39.529 on my best friend's couch than take 867 00:27:39.530 --> 00:27:41.029 your damn money, which I've done 868 00:27:41.030 --> 00:27:42.030 before. 869 00:27:42.650 --> 00:27:45.229 That comes from my parents. 870 00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:46.399 That comes from my parents. 871 00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:46.969 Thank you. 872 00:27:46.970 --> 00:27:48.409 Well, you. You do it. 873 00:27:48.410 --> 00:27:49.549 So you get it. 874 00:27:49.550 --> 00:27:50.959 You get it. 875 00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:52.339 And you. You do it. 876 00:27:52.340 --> 00:27:53.429 You do it well. 877 00:27:53.430 --> 00:27:55.849 You are a model for all these 878 00:27:55.850 --> 00:27:57.529 young people, no matter what their 879 00:27:57.530 --> 00:27:58.849 profession, their future is. 880 00:27:58.850 --> 00:28:00.589 Yes. You're the model. 881 00:28:00.590 --> 00:28:01.579 You're the goat. 882 00:28:01.580 --> 00:28:03.169 Thank you so much for spending some. 883 00:28:03.170 --> 00:28:05.479 Time with us. Thank you all so much. 884 00:28:05.480 --> 00:28:06.709 Much appreciate it. 885 00:28:06.710 --> 00:28:07.459 Thank you. Thank you. 886 00:28:07.460 --> 00:28:09.979 Thank you. Please spread the word. 887 00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:10.980 Thank.