WEBVTT 1 00:00:22.750 --> 00:00:23.799 All right, I think we can get 2 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:24.800 started now. 3 00:00:26.560 --> 00:00:28.899 Thank you all for joining us today 4 00:00:28.900 --> 00:00:30.549 for Lunchtime Art Talks, which, as 5 00:00:30.550 --> 00:00:32.139 many of you know, is a weekly series 6 00:00:32.140 --> 00:00:34.029 led by Hammer curators on works from 7 00:00:34.030 --> 00:00:35.319 our collection. 8 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:36.519 This series will focus on the 9 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:38.349 artists featured in Made In L.A.: A 10 00:00:38.350 --> 00:00:39.759 Version. 11 00:00:39.760 --> 00:00:41.229 As the galleries are unfortunately 12 00:00:41.230 --> 00:00:42.489 closed to the public due to the 13 00:00:42.490 --> 00:00:43.809 pandemic. 14 00:00:43.810 --> 00:00:44.919 We thought it was important to 15 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:46.389 highlight works by the incredible 16 00:00:46.390 --> 00:00:47.769 artists selected for this year's 17 00:00:47.770 --> 00:00:49.269 Biennial and we're really hopeful 18 00:00:49.270 --> 00:00:50.799 that the museum will open soon, that 19 00:00:50.800 --> 00:00:52.899 we can welcome you all back. 20 00:00:52.900 --> 00:00:53.179 M. 21 00:00:53.180 --> 00:00:54.339 My name is Connie Butler, Chief 22 00:00:54.340 --> 00:00:55.390 Curator at The Hammer, 23 00:00:56.440 --> 00:00:57.819 and I will be facilitating this 24 00:00:57.820 --> 00:00:59.246 afternoon's talk on Ser Serpas. 25 00:01:00.250 --> 00:01:01.809 Joining me today is my colleague, 26 00:01:01.810 --> 00:01:03.609 curatorial assistant, Nick Barlow, 27 00:01:03.610 --> 00:01:05.079 who will be helping me answer all 28 00:01:05.080 --> 00:01:06.909 your questions later 29 00:01:06.910 --> 00:01:08.529 in the program. 30 00:01:08.530 --> 00:01:10.629 A few Zoom notes before we begin, 31 00:01:10.630 --> 00:01:12.369 when the presentation starts, please 32 00:01:12.370 --> 00:01:14.229 select "Speaker View" 33 00:01:14.230 --> 00:01:15.579 in the top right corner of your 34 00:01:15.580 --> 00:01:17.499 screen and in the top middle of 35 00:01:17.500 --> 00:01:19.629 your screen, please click on "View 36 00:01:19.630 --> 00:01:21.789 Options" to ensure "side-by side" 37 00:01:21.790 --> 00:01:23.590 and "fit-to-window" are checked. 38 00:01:25.100 --> 00:01:26.689 Please note that today's program is 39 00:01:26.690 --> 00:01:27.889 being recorded. 40 00:01:27.890 --> 00:01:29.389 You have the option to toggle your 41 00:01:29.390 --> 00:01:31.129 camera on and off using the camera 42 00:01:31.130 --> 00:01:32.809 icon at the bottom left corner, 43 00:01:32.810 --> 00:01:33.979 whatever you're most comfortable 44 00:01:33.980 --> 00:01:35.869 with, you'll 45 00:01:35.870 --> 00:01:37.429 remain on mute until the end of the 46 00:01:37.430 --> 00:01:38.959 presentation, at which point Nick 47 00:01:38.960 --> 00:01:40.309 will help me unmuted those of you 48 00:01:40.310 --> 00:01:42.259 who have questions. 49 00:01:42.260 --> 00:01:43.639 And during the presentation, if you 50 00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:45.109 have any questions for me or Nick, 51 00:01:45.110 --> 00:01:46.729 including any technical issues, you 52 00:01:46.730 --> 00:01:48.259 can use the chat feature at the 53 00:01:48.260 --> 00:01:50.239 bottom of your screen 54 00:01:50.240 --> 00:01:51.379 to log those in there. 55 00:01:54.390 --> 00:01:55.390 So. 56 00:01:56.080 --> 00:01:58.059 Let me pull up my notes here 57 00:01:58.060 --> 00:02:00.459 and Josephine, 58 00:02:00.460 --> 00:02:02.649 let's begin with 59 00:02:02.650 --> 00:02:03.670 the first slide. 60 00:02:07.430 --> 00:02:08.430 Okay. So 61 00:02:10.900 --> 00:02:12.969 I'm really happy 62 00:02:12.970 --> 00:02:13.970 to be 63 00:02:14.880 --> 00:02:15.880 talking about 64 00:02:17.010 --> 00:02:18.689 this work, 65 00:02:19.740 --> 00:02:22.289 which is not actually a work 66 00:02:22.290 --> 00:02:24.089 in Made In L.A.. 67 00:02:24.090 --> 00:02:26.010 So just to introduce 68 00:02:28.380 --> 00:02:30.149 the complicated set of questions 69 00:02:30.150 --> 00:02:32.309 that I think that this 70 00:02:32.310 --> 00:02:34.289 grouping of things raises 71 00:02:34.290 --> 00:02:36.119 for us, I just want to first kind 72 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:38.399 of describe what it is that we're 73 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:40.439 looking at and say 74 00:02:40.440 --> 00:02:42.029 that I think that the reason that I 75 00:02:42.030 --> 00:02:43.979 was wanted to talk about 76 00:02:45.540 --> 00:02:47.129 this collection of things that isn't 77 00:02:47.130 --> 00:02:48.839 made in L.A. 78 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:50.789 on behalf of Ser Serpas is because 79 00:02:50.790 --> 00:02:52.709 I'm really confounded by it 80 00:02:52.710 --> 00:02:54.089 in a way that I find 81 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:58.589 all of the most interesting 82 00:02:58.590 --> 00:03:00.089 artworks should do. 83 00:03:00.090 --> 00:03:02.429 There's some there's something 84 00:03:02.430 --> 00:03:04.289 deeply resistant in this 85 00:03:04.290 --> 00:03:05.699 work that I find fascinating. 86 00:03:05.700 --> 00:03:07.529 And I as I've understood it 87 00:03:07.530 --> 00:03:10.049 more, it's only become more so. 88 00:03:10.050 --> 00:03:11.279 But I have to say that my first 89 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:12.280 encounter with it 90 00:03:13.380 --> 00:03:15.329 here is you see in our lobby 91 00:03:15.330 --> 00:03:17.969 gallery with the doors closed 92 00:03:17.970 --> 00:03:19.859 was what's interesting to me from 93 00:03:19.860 --> 00:03:20.860 the start, 94 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:23.999 mostly because I'm 95 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:26.699 really interested in the question of 96 00:03:26.700 --> 00:03:28.619 of art that occupies what 97 00:03:28.620 --> 00:03:30.359 I think of as this very liminal 98 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:32.219 ground where 99 00:03:32.220 --> 00:03:33.959 it barely becomes something, where 100 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:35.939 it barely becomes and holds 101 00:03:35.940 --> 00:03:38.099 the status of art itself 102 00:03:38.100 --> 00:03:39.689 and I think that's the surface is 103 00:03:39.690 --> 00:03:42.719 very much in this territory 104 00:03:42.720 --> 00:03:44.489 with their work. 105 00:03:44.490 --> 00:03:46.259 So this collection of objects is in 106 00:03:46.260 --> 00:03:47.309 our lobby gallery 107 00:03:48.570 --> 00:03:50.519 where it has been in this 108 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:52.079 configuration since it came to the 109 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:53.249 museum. 110 00:03:53.250 --> 00:03:55.169 Ser Serpas has two parts 111 00:03:55.170 --> 00:03:56.170 of 112 00:03:57.150 --> 00:03:59.099 their practice, which is 113 00:03:59.100 --> 00:04:01.019 on the one hand, a practice 114 00:04:01.020 --> 00:04:02.429 that's more based in painting and 115 00:04:02.430 --> 00:04:04.469 I'm going to talk less about that 116 00:04:04.470 --> 00:04:06.899 and then a practice that is really 117 00:04:06.900 --> 00:04:08.729 solidly working with found objects 118 00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:12.599 and a kind of accumulation 119 00:04:12.600 --> 00:04:14.770 sculpture for lack of a better term. 120 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:18.328 So when the curators approached 121 00:04:18.329 --> 00:04:20.278 Ser about what to do 122 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:21.929 after the onset of the pandemic, 123 00:04:25.350 --> 00:04:27.659 they had left Los Angeles for 124 00:04:27.660 --> 00:04:28.829 Europe out of some 125 00:04:30.030 --> 00:04:31.979 fear about the virus and 126 00:04:31.980 --> 00:04:33.149 feeling more comfortable in a 127 00:04:33.150 --> 00:04:34.229 different location. 128 00:04:34.230 --> 00:04:36.539 And so the question became, what, 129 00:04:36.540 --> 00:04:38.519 in fact, could Ser do 130 00:04:38.520 --> 00:04:40.589 to represent their work in 131 00:04:40.590 --> 00:04:42.419 Made In L.A.? What could we 132 00:04:42.420 --> 00:04:43.919 have in our galleries that would 133 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.079 represent her 134 00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:47.489 practice? 135 00:04:47.490 --> 00:04:48.490 And 136 00:04:49.470 --> 00:04:51.299 the curators, I think, indicated 137 00:04:51.300 --> 00:04:53.369 some preference for this 138 00:04:53.370 --> 00:04:56.219 more assemblage accumulation 139 00:04:56.220 --> 00:04:58.739 sculptural side of her practice. 140 00:04:58.740 --> 00:04:59.740 And so 141 00:05:01.260 --> 00:05:03.239 what was agreed upon 142 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:04.240 is that objects, refuse, 143 00:05:06.510 --> 00:05:08.399 objects of trash, 144 00:05:08.400 --> 00:05:10.109 would be collected—which is her 145 00:05:10.110 --> 00:05:12.089 usual process—would be brought into 146 00:05:12.090 --> 00:05:13.949 our galleries and would 147 00:05:13.950 --> 00:05:15.899 be laid out in a grid 148 00:05:15.900 --> 00:05:18.299 not by the artist, 149 00:05:18.300 --> 00:05:20.579 but by a combination of 150 00:05:20.580 --> 00:05:22.589 an assistant working with our crew 151 00:05:22.590 --> 00:05:23.590 to lay these 152 00:05:25.440 --> 00:05:26.440 things out 153 00:05:28.410 --> 00:05:30.119 so that they would represent, in a 154 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:32.159 way, the potential 155 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:33.989 of becoming something. 156 00:05:33.990 --> 00:05:35.849 So what you see here is actually an 157 00:05:35.850 --> 00:05:38.009 accumulation of trash gathered from 158 00:05:38.010 --> 00:05:40.019 around the Hammer Museum. 159 00:05:40.020 --> 00:05:41.309 And if we go to the next slide, we 160 00:05:41.310 --> 00:05:43.050 can get a kind of closer view of it. 161 00:05:45.180 --> 00:05:47.159 The image is sort of elongated 162 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:48.419 here in a weird way, the gallery 163 00:05:48.420 --> 00:05:49.979 isn't quite as big as it looks. 164 00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:51.689 But what you see when you look into 165 00:05:51.690 --> 00:05:53.339 the lobby gallery is this kind of 166 00:05:53.340 --> 00:05:55.559 grid, a very loose grid 167 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:56.560 of materials. 168 00:05:58.140 --> 00:06:00.329 Go to the next slide, please. 169 00:06:01.380 --> 00:06:03.479 Sorry. Go back to the one 170 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:04.480 at the Hammer. 171 00:06:08.140 --> 00:06:10.959 So I want to just read for you 172 00:06:10.960 --> 00:06:12.849 the text that is on our 173 00:06:12.850 --> 00:06:14.799 website that the 174 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.349 artist composed, which 175 00:06:17.350 --> 00:06:20.259 in fact is the work of art 176 00:06:20.260 --> 00:06:22.209 but is meant to kind of narrate, 177 00:06:22.210 --> 00:06:24.129 I think, what you're seeing here 178 00:06:24.130 --> 00:06:25.239 and the experience of what you're 179 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:26.240 seeing here. 180 00:06:27.010 --> 00:06:28.839 So what we're seeing has 181 00:06:28.840 --> 00:06:31.059 been titled, Potential Indefinite 182 00:06:31.060 --> 00:06:33.129 Performance, This, That And 183 00:06:33.130 --> 00:06:33.704 Now Again. 184 00:06:33.705 --> 00:06:34.705 Ser 185 00:06:35.650 --> 00:06:37.269 Serpas is from Los Angeles. 186 00:06:37.270 --> 00:06:38.769 She was asked to contribute work 187 00:06:38.770 --> 00:06:40.329 from the assisted ready-made portion 188 00:06:40.330 --> 00:06:42.039 of her practice to Made In L.A. 189 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:42.909 2020. 190 00:06:42.910 --> 00:06:44.259 Within the assisted ready-made 191 00:06:44.260 --> 00:06:46.329 portion of her practice, she tends 192 00:06:46.330 --> 00:06:47.949 to source objects from the area 193 00:06:47.950 --> 00:06:49.059 immediately surrounding an 194 00:06:49.060 --> 00:06:50.889 exhibition site, gather them 195 00:06:50.890 --> 00:06:52.959 at the exhibition site and produce 196 00:06:52.960 --> 00:06:54.969 a work or works at the exhibition 197 00:06:54.970 --> 00:06:57.919 site or "on site". 198 00:06:57.920 --> 00:06:59.289 This portion of her practice is 199 00:06:59.290 --> 00:07:01.149 dependent upon her unfettered access 200 00:07:01.150 --> 00:07:02.829 to the areas immediately surrounding 201 00:07:02.830 --> 00:07:04.539 the exhibition site and the 202 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:06.489 exhibition site itself 203 00:07:06.490 --> 00:07:07.749 in this case, Made In L.A. 204 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:10.989 and the Huntington in San Marino 205 00:07:10.990 --> 00:07:12.669 and requires unconditional 206 00:07:12.670 --> 00:07:14.379 discretion on her part in the 207 00:07:14.380 --> 00:07:16.419 selection of materials, as well 208 00:07:16.420 --> 00:07:18.729 as the presentation of the work. 209 00:07:18.730 --> 00:07:19.539 "Due to her residence in 210 00:07:19.540 --> 00:07:21.489 Switzerland, the travel restrictions 211 00:07:21.490 --> 00:07:22.989 in place at the time of her alloted 212 00:07:22.990 --> 00:07:24.249 installation period, and the 213 00:07:24.250 --> 00:07:25.569 existing guidelines that she 214 00:07:25.570 --> 00:07:27.460 received concerning authorized 215 00:07:28.690 --> 00:07:30.339 qualities of materials for 216 00:07:30.340 --> 00:07:32.439 exhibition in the institutions. 217 00:07:32.440 --> 00:07:34.029 She was not able to contribute work 218 00:07:34.030 --> 00:07:35.349 from this portion of her practice to 219 00:07:35.350 --> 00:07:37.419 either site of Made In L.A. 220 00:07:37.420 --> 00:07:38.420 2020." 221 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:40.989 "The objects presented here were 222 00:07:40.990 --> 00:07:43.059 collected in the areas surrounding 223 00:07:43.060 --> 00:07:45.069 this exhibition site and 224 00:07:45.070 --> 00:07:46.929 laid out in a grid in September 225 00:07:46.930 --> 00:07:48.219 of 2020. 226 00:07:48.220 --> 00:07:50.139 Collectively, they are not a work 227 00:07:50.140 --> 00:07:50.949 or works. 228 00:07:50.950 --> 00:07:52.629 They were not collected or laid out 229 00:07:52.630 --> 00:07:53.529 by the artist. 230 00:07:53.530 --> 00:07:55.059 They were not collected or laid out 231 00:07:55.060 --> 00:07:56.379 on direct instruction from the 232 00:07:56.380 --> 00:07:58.239 artist because the qualities of the 233 00:07:58.240 --> 00:07:59.229 objects were subject to 234 00:07:59.230 --> 00:08:00.879 institutional guidelines instead of 235 00:08:00.880 --> 00:08:02.169 the artist's discretion. 236 00:08:02.170 --> 00:08:03.399 Their selection cannot be 237 00:08:03.400 --> 00:08:05.259 apportioned to the artist practice. 238 00:08:05.260 --> 00:08:07.149 Rather, these objects constitute the 239 00:08:07.150 --> 00:08:09.579 potential for a work or works—a 240 00:08:09.580 --> 00:08:11.769 performance set in an indefinite 241 00:08:11.770 --> 00:08:12.549 time. 242 00:08:12.550 --> 00:08:13.959 These objects will be properly 243 00:08:13.960 --> 00:08:15.849 disposed of at the end of Made In 244 00:08:15.850 --> 00:08:15.904 L.A.." 245 00:08:15.905 --> 00:08:16.905 So 246 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:20.189 that essentially those two 247 00:08:20.190 --> 00:08:22.109 paragraphs are how 248 00:08:22.110 --> 00:08:24.059 the artist describes 249 00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:25.919 the activity and action that went 250 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:27.749 towards accumulating these 251 00:08:27.750 --> 00:08:28.750 objects. 252 00:08:29.520 --> 00:08:31.379 Let's go to the next image just 253 00:08:31.380 --> 00:08:33.359 to show you what happened and 254 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:35.548 what exists at the Huntington now. 255 00:08:35.549 --> 00:08:36.418 And at the Huntington. 256 00:08:36.419 --> 00:08:37.558 I think the work is even 257 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:39.449 more—there's a little bit of 258 00:08:39.450 --> 00:08:40.918 humor, I think, because when you 259 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:43.288 encounter these things outside, 260 00:08:43.289 --> 00:08:45.689 they're even more perhaps trash-like 261 00:08:45.690 --> 00:08:47.339 than they are or immediately 262 00:08:47.340 --> 00:08:49.199 identifiable as trash than they are 263 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:50.699 at the Hammer where that we're 264 00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:52.619 bringing them inside the galleries 265 00:08:52.620 --> 00:08:54.599 automatically accrues 266 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:56.219 another kind of status, I think, to 267 00:08:56.220 --> 00:08:57.600 this accumulation of trash. 268 00:08:59.040 --> 00:09:00.359 But at the Huntington, they're sort 269 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:02.189 of just to the right of 270 00:09:02.190 --> 00:09:03.719 the galleries where you will enter 271 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:05.669 and see the exhibition and 272 00:09:05.670 --> 00:09:06.960 it literally looks like. 273 00:09:08.140 --> 00:09:09.999 You know, something left over 274 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:12.249 from a combination of a construction 275 00:09:12.250 --> 00:09:14.049 site or a children's playground, and 276 00:09:14.050 --> 00:09:15.909 I think I do think that there's 277 00:09:15.910 --> 00:09:17.739 an interesting kind of aspect 278 00:09:17.740 --> 00:09:19.569 of play here and humor in the 279 00:09:19.570 --> 00:09:20.570 work, too, 280 00:09:21.670 --> 00:09:23.919 though it's not generally associated 281 00:09:23.920 --> 00:09:25.569 with her work so much. 282 00:09:25.570 --> 00:09:27.399 But I think there is there is a 283 00:09:27.400 --> 00:09:29.019 kind of lightness to it, which I 284 00:09:29.020 --> 00:09:31.779 find very interesting, an extremely 285 00:09:31.780 --> 00:09:33.909 light touch or something that's so 286 00:09:33.910 --> 00:09:36.039 withholding in the touch 287 00:09:36.040 --> 00:09:37.749 that the artist has exerted onto the 288 00:09:37.750 --> 00:09:39.579 materials that 289 00:09:39.580 --> 00:09:41.949 that lightness becomes 290 00:09:41.950 --> 00:09:43.869 part of the work's ephemerality and 291 00:09:43.870 --> 00:09:45.729 part of how I 292 00:09:45.730 --> 00:09:46.839 read it in any case. 293 00:09:49.690 --> 00:09:51.488 There are a couple of for me, let's 294 00:09:54.500 --> 00:09:56.359 see, there were a couple of things, 295 00:09:56.360 --> 00:09:58.189 quotes actually that I 296 00:09:58.190 --> 00:10:00.499 pulled out of reading 297 00:10:00.500 --> 00:10:02.299 and listening to some interviews 298 00:10:02.300 --> 00:10:03.469 that the artist has done over the 299 00:10:03.470 --> 00:10:04.635 last couple of years 300 00:10:07.020 --> 00:10:09.149 that I found really interesting 301 00:10:09.150 --> 00:10:11.129 and that that for me, 302 00:10:11.130 --> 00:10:13.499 buttresses this idea of 303 00:10:13.500 --> 00:10:15.089 refusal that I think is deeply 304 00:10:15.090 --> 00:10:17.249 within the work, this refusal 305 00:10:17.250 --> 00:10:19.199 of something to become art, 306 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:21.149 to become sculpture and even 307 00:10:21.150 --> 00:10:23.129 refusal on the part of the artist 308 00:10:23.130 --> 00:10:24.210 to become an author. 309 00:10:27.400 --> 00:10:28.479 She talks about 310 00:10:29.650 --> 00:10:31.509 being given trash and refuse 311 00:10:31.510 --> 00:10:33.429 by friends over time that 312 00:10:33.430 --> 00:10:35.439 this was the beginning of of how 313 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:37.989 the artists started to use trash. 314 00:10:37.990 --> 00:10:39.219 Friends that she describes as 315 00:10:39.220 --> 00:10:40.929 "hoarders" and I think there's this 316 00:10:40.930 --> 00:10:41.930 interesting 317 00:10:44.500 --> 00:10:46.539 tension in the work between 318 00:10:48.820 --> 00:10:50.799 almost a minimalist 319 00:10:50.800 --> 00:10:52.749 esthetic and the notion 320 00:10:52.750 --> 00:10:53.750 of hoarding. 321 00:10:55.570 --> 00:10:57.549 The artist has said, "The area I 322 00:10:57.550 --> 00:10:59.949 inhabit has always been apocalypse" 323 00:10:59.950 --> 00:11:00.950 and there's something 324 00:11:02.490 --> 00:11:03.989 really interesting, I think, about 325 00:11:03.990 --> 00:11:05.400 this notion of apocalypse 326 00:11:06.780 --> 00:11:07.780 and 327 00:11:08.640 --> 00:11:10.289 kind of dispossessed objects 328 00:11:11.340 --> 00:11:13.199 that, I think is in 329 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:14.200 the meaning of the work. 330 00:11:15.330 --> 00:11:17.339 One of the things I read, the artist 331 00:11:17.340 --> 00:11:19.169 describes in her 332 00:11:19.170 --> 00:11:20.789 personal history that her mother 333 00:11:20.790 --> 00:11:23.279 worked for the LAPD 334 00:11:23.280 --> 00:11:24.989 working with dispossessed objects 335 00:11:24.990 --> 00:11:26.309 and sorting through them and I 336 00:11:26.310 --> 00:11:28.049 thought that that was quite an 337 00:11:28.050 --> 00:11:29.789 interesting at least visual image 338 00:11:29.790 --> 00:11:31.529 that must have impacted the artist 339 00:11:31.530 --> 00:11:33.299 greatly. This notion of kind of a 340 00:11:33.300 --> 00:11:34.300 constant entropic 341 00:11:35.430 --> 00:11:37.859 kind of sorting through things 342 00:11:37.860 --> 00:11:40.109 through objects 343 00:11:40.110 --> 00:11:41.909 that have a crude history and memory 344 00:11:41.910 --> 00:11:42.910 over time, 345 00:11:45.280 --> 00:11:47.159 and then this way that 346 00:11:47.160 --> 00:11:50.129 she describes objects as symptoms. 347 00:11:50.130 --> 00:11:52.109 There is 348 00:11:52.110 --> 00:11:53.639 certainly is a relationship between 349 00:11:53.640 --> 00:11:55.589 these objects and something 350 00:11:55.590 --> 00:11:57.329 of the body, I think, or of the 351 00:11:57.330 --> 00:11:58.330 bodily.And 352 00:11:59.190 --> 00:12:01.289 I like very much the idea of objects 353 00:12:01.290 --> 00:12:03.269 as symptoms and certainly 354 00:12:03.270 --> 00:12:05.249 at this moment in our kind 355 00:12:05.250 --> 00:12:06.450 of Covid lives, 356 00:12:08.850 --> 00:12:10.769 the whole notion of of symptoms 357 00:12:10.770 --> 00:12:12.419 and living with symptoms and living 358 00:12:12.420 --> 00:12:14.399 with objects and that we're now only 359 00:12:14.400 --> 00:12:16.139 living with our objects as opposed 360 00:12:16.140 --> 00:12:17.190 to sort of living in 361 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:19.709 real life. 362 00:12:19.710 --> 00:12:21.359 I thought that that that notion was 363 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.009 very resonant. 364 00:12:23.010 --> 00:12:24.899 And then also, 365 00:12:24.900 --> 00:12:26.129 Ser Serpas has said that, 366 00:12:26.130 --> 00:12:27.449 "Narcissism is important to 367 00:12:27.450 --> 00:12:30.299 everything.", which I'm very 368 00:12:30.300 --> 00:12:32.250 curious about that particular 369 00:12:33.510 --> 00:12:34.510 quote. 370 00:12:36.450 --> 00:12:38.339 I also wanted to 371 00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:40.139 just kind of call into the room, a 372 00:12:40.140 --> 00:12:42.089 couple of historical references that 373 00:12:42.090 --> 00:12:43.383 for me are immediately 374 00:12:46.710 --> 00:12:48.689 obvious with this work, so maybe go 375 00:12:48.690 --> 00:12:50.519 to the next 376 00:12:50.520 --> 00:12:51.520 let's see... 377 00:12:52.520 --> 00:12:54.199 no, the next image. 378 00:12:56.430 --> 00:12:57.879 So maybe stop here, this is 379 00:12:59.580 --> 00:13:01.859 an installation view of previous 380 00:13:01.860 --> 00:13:03.719 works or 381 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:05.159 a previous installation by Ser 382 00:13:05.160 --> 00:13:06.160 Serpas 383 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:08.369 in 2018. 384 00:13:08.370 --> 00:13:10.229 And what's interesting about this 385 00:13:10.230 --> 00:13:12.089 is I think that what you can see is 386 00:13:12.090 --> 00:13:14.489 here is a case where the artist 387 00:13:14.490 --> 00:13:15.899 has been involved, has been 388 00:13:15.900 --> 00:13:17.039 physically present, where you can 389 00:13:17.040 --> 00:13:19.109 see the objects 390 00:13:19.110 --> 00:13:21.059 have been allowed to come 391 00:13:21.060 --> 00:13:22.319 together and have been brought 392 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.449 together into 393 00:13:24.450 --> 00:13:26.489 sculptural form 394 00:13:26.490 --> 00:13:29.039 and underscored, 395 00:13:29.040 --> 00:13:31.199 I think, by these these very large 396 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.569 and present kind of pedestals. 397 00:13:33.570 --> 00:13:35.279 So in a way, a kind of very formal 398 00:13:35.280 --> 00:13:37.229 extreme to the very 399 00:13:37.230 --> 00:13:38.909 loose, informal collection of 400 00:13:38.910 --> 00:13:40.109 materials that we see 401 00:13:41.550 --> 00:13:43.079 in the Hammer and Huntington 402 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:44.559 installations. 403 00:13:44.560 --> 00:13:46.609 But as far as 404 00:13:46.610 --> 00:13:48.359 the historic references that I just 405 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:50.189 wanted to bring up for me, go back 406 00:13:50.190 --> 00:13:52.199 to and there are many that 407 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:53.909 one could talk about, which is 408 00:13:53.910 --> 00:13:55.139 what's so interesting about this 409 00:13:55.140 --> 00:13:56.140 work, I think, 410 00:13:57.360 --> 00:13:58.859 lots of questions that it raises. 411 00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:00.419 But for me, it goes back to a moment 412 00:14:00.420 --> 00:14:02.249 in the late 1960s when 413 00:14:02.250 --> 00:14:04.649 American artists were, 414 00:14:04.650 --> 00:14:06.959 I think, again or similarly 415 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:08.549 at this kind of ground zero of 416 00:14:08.550 --> 00:14:09.688 questioning what sculpture 417 00:14:12.060 --> 00:14:14.009 could be and 418 00:14:14.010 --> 00:14:15.010 what objecthood meant 419 00:14:16.260 --> 00:14:17.639 and what the accumulation of 420 00:14:17.640 --> 00:14:18.690 materials meant 421 00:14:19.980 --> 00:14:21.689 within art practice. 422 00:14:21.690 --> 00:14:23.609 And specifically, I'm just 423 00:14:23.610 --> 00:14:25.499 thinking of and I think we 424 00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:27.119 can put these references into the 425 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:28.168 chat if it's useful, Robert 426 00:14:30.450 --> 00:14:31.450 Morris's 427 00:14:33.330 --> 00:14:34.330 work, 428 00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:37.079 but there are many installations by 429 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:38.549 Morris that we could call up, but I 430 00:14:38.550 --> 00:14:40.439 was thinking of Scatter Piece from 431 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:42.279 68 and 9, which was 432 00:14:42.280 --> 00:14:43.589 the work he did at the Castelli 433 00:14:43.590 --> 00:14:44.590 Warehouse, 434 00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:49.139 which was an accumulation of a 435 00:14:49.140 --> 00:14:50.309 hundred pieces of metal and a 436 00:14:50.310 --> 00:14:52.229 hundred pieces of felt 437 00:14:52.230 --> 00:14:53.759 scattered onto the floor. 438 00:14:53.760 --> 00:14:55.919 And this is a moment when lots 439 00:14:55.920 --> 00:14:57.479 of very young artists like Robert 440 00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:59.669 Morris were experimenting 441 00:14:59.670 --> 00:15:01.349 with kind of industrial and 442 00:15:01.350 --> 00:15:03.210 post-industrial materials and, 443 00:15:04.680 --> 00:15:07.019 you know, moving them into 444 00:15:07.020 --> 00:15:08.819 former warehouse spaces which were 445 00:15:08.820 --> 00:15:10.769 suddenly becoming the 446 00:15:10.770 --> 00:15:12.509 future spaces of galleries for 447 00:15:12.510 --> 00:15:14.309 example, this is a moment when 448 00:15:14.310 --> 00:15:15.929 gallery architecture is migrating 449 00:15:15.930 --> 00:15:18.089 from the domestic to the industrial 450 00:15:18.090 --> 00:15:19.090 and artists started 451 00:15:20.640 --> 00:15:23.099 experimenting with random 452 00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:25.139 kind of scattering of materials 453 00:15:25.140 --> 00:15:26.489 in space. 454 00:15:26.490 --> 00:15:28.529 Also, very importantly, Morris's 455 00:15:28.530 --> 00:15:30.179 Continuous Project Altered Daily, 456 00:15:30.180 --> 00:15:32.219 which is the kind 457 00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:34.139 of performative accumulation 458 00:15:34.140 --> 00:15:36.599 of materials that was titled 459 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:38.429 as such and 460 00:15:38.430 --> 00:15:40.469 then also done 461 00:15:40.470 --> 00:15:42.719 as or reinterpreted 462 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:44.100 with Yvonne Rainer as 463 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:46.709 an installation, an ongoing 464 00:15:46.710 --> 00:15:47.710 installation. 465 00:15:50.970 --> 00:15:53.069 And there was a growing kind of 466 00:15:53.070 --> 00:15:54.689 skepticism about the division 467 00:15:54.690 --> 00:15:56.579 between activities 468 00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:58.169 that happened in the studio and 469 00:15:58.170 --> 00:16:00.179 activities that ended up in 470 00:16:00.180 --> 00:16:00.839 a gallery. 471 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:02.909 Similarly, in Rainer's choreography, 472 00:16:02.910 --> 00:16:05.069 activities of the rehearsal versus 473 00:16:05.070 --> 00:16:07.229 activities of the final, 474 00:16:07.230 --> 00:16:10.169 that constituted the final dance 475 00:16:10.170 --> 00:16:12.029 product, if you will. 476 00:16:12.030 --> 00:16:13.030 And I think 477 00:16:14.250 --> 00:16:16.619 that slippage between 478 00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:18.449 the activities of the studio, the 479 00:16:18.450 --> 00:16:20.129 gathering, the accumulation, the 480 00:16:20.130 --> 00:16:21.569 putting together of material and 481 00:16:21.570 --> 00:16:24.179 objects versus the final 482 00:16:24.180 --> 00:16:25.379 kind of finished product of the 483 00:16:25.380 --> 00:16:27.029 gallery is certainly a territory 484 00:16:27.030 --> 00:16:29.219 that Ser Serpas is very interested 485 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:30.220 in. 486 00:16:32.470 --> 00:16:34.689 And I guess 487 00:16:34.690 --> 00:16:37.209 I was just going to finish with 488 00:16:37.210 --> 00:16:39.879 thinking about Yvonne Rainer, who's 489 00:16:39.880 --> 00:16:42.069 great work of 490 00:16:42.070 --> 00:16:43.070 kind of non-choreography 491 00:16:46.370 --> 00:16:48.199 in Trio A in 492 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:50.239 1966 came out 493 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:52.369 of this, a similar kind of thinking 494 00:16:52.370 --> 00:16:53.370 about 495 00:16:55.430 --> 00:16:56.960 the materials of the rehearsal 496 00:16:57.980 --> 00:17:00.169 and I wanted to just mention 497 00:17:00.170 --> 00:17:02.269 her No Manifesto 498 00:17:02.270 --> 00:17:03.270 from, 499 00:17:04.349 --> 00:17:05.939 I lost my date of it but I think 500 00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:08.459 it's 1964 501 00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:10.289 or 66 where 502 00:17:10.290 --> 00:17:12.149 she says, "No 503 00:17:12.150 --> 00:17:13.019 to spectacle. 504 00:17:13.020 --> 00:17:14.368 No to virtuosity. 505 00:17:14.369 --> 00:17:16.199 No to transformations and magic and 506 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:17.098 make-believe. 507 00:17:17.099 --> 00:17:18.899 No to the glamour and transcendency 508 00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:20.189 of the star image. 509 00:17:20.190 --> 00:17:21.539 No to the heroic. 510 00:17:21.540 --> 00:17:23.249 No to the anti-heroic. 511 00:17:23.250 --> 00:17:25.108 No to trash imagery. 512 00:17:25.109 --> 00:17:26.789 No to involvement of performer or 513 00:17:26.790 --> 00:17:27.689 spectator. 514 00:17:27.690 --> 00:17:28.649 No to style. 515 00:17:28.650 --> 00:17:29.729 No to camp. 516 00:17:29.730 --> 00:17:32.099 No to seduction of spectator 517 00:17:32.100 --> 00:17:33.779 by the wiles of the performer. 518 00:17:33.780 --> 00:17:35.519 No to eccentricity. 519 00:17:35.520 --> 00:17:37.349 No to moving or 520 00:17:37.350 --> 00:17:38.350 being moved." 521 00:17:40.050 --> 00:17:42.419 So with that, I'm going to 522 00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:43.859 just leave you with those thoughts 523 00:17:43.860 --> 00:17:45.629 which are extremely notational, 524 00:17:45.630 --> 00:17:47.159 which is I think in the spirit of 525 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:48.160 this work 526 00:17:49.590 --> 00:17:51.089 and I guess we can 527 00:17:52.350 --> 00:17:54.119 open it up to questions, Nick. 528 00:17:55.679 --> 00:17:57.199 Connie, thank you so much. 529 00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:58.519 We'll now begin answering some of 530 00:17:58.520 --> 00:17:59.609 your questions. 531 00:17:59.610 --> 00:18:01.499 Again, you can ask questions via 532 00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:03.559 this Zoom chat feature at the 533 00:18:03.560 --> 00:18:05.539 bottom of the screen, or you can 534 00:18:05.540 --> 00:18:07.759 select the participants module 535 00:18:07.760 --> 00:18:09.079 at the bottom of the screen and 536 00:18:09.080 --> 00:18:10.129 there will be an option to raise 537 00:18:10.130 --> 00:18:11.719 your hand or you can physically 538 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:13.219 raise your hand and we'll come find 539 00:18:13.220 --> 00:18:14.220 you. 540 00:18:14.660 --> 00:18:15.784 I guess, to start it off. 541 00:18:18.860 --> 00:18:21.529 I have two questions. 542 00:18:21.530 --> 00:18:23.389 One would be to kind of or 543 00:18:23.390 --> 00:18:25.369 more kind of a thought, which is I'm 544 00:18:25.370 --> 00:18:26.390 interested in 545 00:18:27.650 --> 00:18:28.879 the artists you mentioned, Robert 546 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.339 Morris and Yvonne Rainer are both 547 00:18:31.340 --> 00:18:32.659 these kind of luminary figures, 548 00:18:32.660 --> 00:18:33.919 these kind of important pictures of 549 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:34.920 a New York 550 00:18:35.750 --> 00:18:38.149 East Coast art scene and 551 00:18:38.150 --> 00:18:40.339 Ser is working 552 00:18:40.340 --> 00:18:42.019 in Los Angeles and is from Los 553 00:18:42.020 --> 00:18:43.909 Angeles. Is there anything 554 00:18:43.910 --> 00:18:46.099 about kind of her practice 555 00:18:46.100 --> 00:18:48.109 that speaks towards Los 556 00:18:48.110 --> 00:18:49.579 Angeles? Is there anything about 557 00:18:49.580 --> 00:18:51.409 kind of collecting trash 558 00:18:51.410 --> 00:18:53.659 from a certain place that then, 559 00:18:53.660 --> 00:18:55.759 I guess, does the trash become 560 00:18:55.760 --> 00:18:58.189 a kind of Los Angeles 561 00:18:58.190 --> 00:19:00.109 trash practice indifference from 562 00:19:00.110 --> 00:19:01.219 the New York? I wonder if you could 563 00:19:01.220 --> 00:19:02.239 talk a little bit about 564 00:19:03.560 --> 00:19:05.209 kind of the L.A.-ness of her work, 565 00:19:05.210 --> 00:19:06.329 if you might. 566 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:16.539 I don't think I would want to 567 00:19:16.540 --> 00:19:18.609 say, what is the L.A.-ness 568 00:19:18.610 --> 00:19:19.610 of her work, I mean, 569 00:19:20.650 --> 00:19:22.479 specifically, I wouldn't want to 570 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:23.719 answer that. 571 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:25.329 I would love to hear her answer. 572 00:19:26.500 --> 00:19:27.500 You know, she 573 00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:30.140 very much talks about, 574 00:19:31.490 --> 00:19:32.899 you know, being raised in Boyle 575 00:19:32.900 --> 00:19:34.520 Heights in East Los Angeles. 576 00:19:36.020 --> 00:19:37.249 You know, I mentioned the reference 577 00:19:37.250 --> 00:19:39.979 to her mother and her mother's work 578 00:19:39.980 --> 00:19:41.989 with the LAPD, but 579 00:19:41.990 --> 00:19:43.939 I, for 580 00:19:43.940 --> 00:19:46.069 me, just 581 00:19:46.070 --> 00:19:47.929 kind of coming to the word cold, I 582 00:19:47.930 --> 00:19:49.749 guess I don't find—I 583 00:19:53.030 --> 00:19:55.009 think that it transcends that, and 584 00:19:55.010 --> 00:19:56.209 that's one of the things that I 585 00:19:56.210 --> 00:19:57.409 think is interesting about it. 586 00:19:57.410 --> 00:19:58.489 I mean, yes, there is the 587 00:19:58.490 --> 00:20:00.199 specificity of the trash having been 588 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.209 gathered around the museum, but 589 00:20:02.210 --> 00:20:04.189 that just happens to be because 590 00:20:04.190 --> 00:20:05.659 she was invited to be in Made In 591 00:20:05.660 --> 00:20:07.039 L.A.. I mean, the trash, if we were 592 00:20:07.040 --> 00:20:08.269 in Switzerland, would be collected 593 00:20:08.270 --> 00:20:10.609 in Switzerland. You know, it's not 594 00:20:10.610 --> 00:20:12.499 to her that site specificity, 595 00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:13.555 I think is important 596 00:20:16.120 --> 00:20:17.499 because of the process of the 597 00:20:17.500 --> 00:20:20.439 collecting, which is important 598 00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:22.389 is how I read it, but not 599 00:20:22.390 --> 00:20:24.009 so much because it expresses 600 00:20:24.010 --> 00:20:25.569 anything in particular about Los 601 00:20:25.570 --> 00:20:26.570 Angeles. 602 00:20:27.820 --> 00:20:29.799 So that's what I would say to that. 603 00:20:29.800 --> 00:20:31.599 I would love to hear how the artist 604 00:20:31.600 --> 00:20:33.279 would answer that, though, and maybe 605 00:20:33.280 --> 00:20:35.229 the maybe the I see 606 00:20:35.230 --> 00:20:36.759 Lauren here, maybe the Made In L.A. 607 00:20:36.760 --> 00:20:38.169 curators know more about that than I 608 00:20:38.170 --> 00:20:39.170 do. 609 00:20:42.460 --> 00:20:44.919 We have a question from Tom 610 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:46.269 here, which is, "Being from Los 611 00:20:46.270 --> 00:20:48.279 Angeles, the artist is aware of what 612 00:20:48.280 --> 00:20:49.280 Westwood 613 00:20:50.320 --> 00:20:51.819 and San Marino. How much of this is 614 00:20:51.820 --> 00:20:53.109 also a discussion a level of 615 00:20:53.110 --> 00:20:54.110 economic privilege?" 616 00:21:01.660 --> 00:21:02.709 Sorry, say that again. 617 00:21:02.710 --> 00:21:05.049 How much is the... 618 00:21:05.050 --> 00:21:06.939 I guess, without 619 00:21:06.940 --> 00:21:09.069 kind of speaking for the artist, 620 00:21:09.070 --> 00:21:11.079 the question being, "How much 621 00:21:11.080 --> 00:21:13.059 of the discussion would you say is 622 00:21:13.060 --> 00:21:15.039 about economic privilege in 623 00:21:15.040 --> 00:21:16.040 her work?" 624 00:21:19.300 --> 00:21:21.579 I think it's definitely there 625 00:21:21.580 --> 00:21:23.469 in the work and she she has 626 00:21:23.470 --> 00:21:25.329 talked about really publicly 627 00:21:25.330 --> 00:21:26.499 in interviews and stuff, 628 00:21:28.270 --> 00:21:29.361 actually her own 629 00:21:30.890 --> 00:21:32.779 very specific critique, for example, 630 00:21:32.780 --> 00:21:34.669 of art education and the privilege 631 00:21:34.670 --> 00:21:35.959 of art education. 632 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:38.509 She studied at Columbia 633 00:21:38.510 --> 00:21:40.309 and finished there in 2017 and I 634 00:21:40.310 --> 00:21:42.709 think has a very interesting 635 00:21:42.710 --> 00:21:44.539 and very ambivalent 636 00:21:44.540 --> 00:21:46.399 position about being a woman, being 637 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.829 a woman of color within that program 638 00:21:48.830 --> 00:21:50.449 and feeling instrumentalist in 639 00:21:50.450 --> 00:21:51.450 various ways. 640 00:21:52.730 --> 00:21:54.739 And how so I do think 641 00:21:54.740 --> 00:21:56.929 there is a critique about about 642 00:21:56.930 --> 00:21:58.849 class and 643 00:21:58.850 --> 00:22:00.869 the circulation 644 00:22:00.870 --> 00:22:03.259 of, you know, waste 645 00:22:03.260 --> 00:22:06.199 and and objects in 646 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:07.129 different economies. 647 00:22:07.130 --> 00:22:08.629 Yeah. I mean, I think that is in the 648 00:22:08.630 --> 00:22:09.630 work very much. 649 00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:14.260 I guess a question from 650 00:22:17.190 --> 00:22:19.289 myself with this 651 00:22:19.290 --> 00:22:20.751 kind of ephemeral practice in which 652 00:22:20.752 --> 00:22:22.799 or kind of conceptual practice 653 00:22:22.800 --> 00:22:23.800 of collecting 654 00:22:25.020 --> 00:22:26.339 as a museum professional, as a 655 00:22:26.340 --> 00:22:29.279 curator, what often is 656 00:22:29.280 --> 00:22:30.509 collected? 657 00:22:30.510 --> 00:22:32.129 Where where does the work kind of 658 00:22:32.130 --> 00:22:34.589 exist for say, a piece like 659 00:22:34.590 --> 00:22:36.929 Yvonne Rayner's Trio A or say, 660 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:39.612 you know, Ser's pieces 661 00:22:40.860 --> 00:22:41.860 or practice? 662 00:22:42.780 --> 00:22:44.549 In terms of being collected? 663 00:22:44.550 --> 00:22:46.769 Yes. In terms of a museum collecting 664 00:22:46.770 --> 00:22:48.119 something like this. 665 00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:50.380 So, 666 00:22:51.540 --> 00:22:53.519 yeah, I mean, I think that the way 667 00:22:53.520 --> 00:22:55.349 that she, in some 668 00:22:55.350 --> 00:22:57.209 senses tries to be critical 669 00:22:57.210 --> 00:22:58.799 about the market and about the 670 00:22:58.800 --> 00:23:01.049 circulation of her own work 671 00:23:01.050 --> 00:23:03.629 by returning 672 00:23:03.630 --> 00:23:05.279 the materials back out into the 673 00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:06.869 world after she uses them. 674 00:23:06.870 --> 00:23:09.389 So as I understand it and 675 00:23:09.390 --> 00:23:11.069 I probably will get some details of 676 00:23:11.070 --> 00:23:13.109 this wrong, but as I understand it, 677 00:23:13.110 --> 00:23:14.699 in the past, like with that image I 678 00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:16.319 showed you from the show in 679 00:23:16.320 --> 00:23:18.329 Switzerland, when the when 680 00:23:18.330 --> 00:23:20.309 the articles of trash accumulate 681 00:23:20.310 --> 00:23:22.259 into sculptures, they can, 682 00:23:22.260 --> 00:23:24.239 in fact, be sold and some have 683 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:24.839 been. 684 00:23:24.840 --> 00:23:26.759 But then when they're not, 685 00:23:26.760 --> 00:23:28.529 they go back, the material goes back 686 00:23:28.530 --> 00:23:29.349 out into the world. 687 00:23:29.350 --> 00:23:31.709 So, I mean, yes, there is 688 00:23:31.710 --> 00:23:33.179 there is a way that the work can be 689 00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:34.709 collected, but there's also a way 690 00:23:34.710 --> 00:23:36.509 that she is constantly kind of 691 00:23:36.510 --> 00:23:38.339 undercutting that or or 692 00:23:38.340 --> 00:23:40.109 trying to be critical of that, 693 00:23:41.600 --> 00:23:43.049 you know, in a way that I think is 694 00:23:43.050 --> 00:23:45.059 very related to if 695 00:23:45.060 --> 00:23:46.919 we can say, broadly speaking, a the 696 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:48.659 same kind of institutional critique 697 00:23:48.660 --> 00:23:50.729 that, say, a Barry Levy 698 00:23:50.730 --> 00:23:52.859 was involved in with his 699 00:23:52.860 --> 00:23:54.719 scattered installations in 700 00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:55.499 the late 60s. 701 00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:57.239 Again, that this idea that you make 702 00:23:57.240 --> 00:23:59.189 something and then it gets destroyed 703 00:23:59.190 --> 00:24:00.989 and then you make it again, which is 704 00:24:00.990 --> 00:24:02.549 which is a strategy we're very 705 00:24:02.550 --> 00:24:04.199 familiar with now in contemporary 706 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:06.089 art. But at that time, certainly 707 00:24:06.090 --> 00:24:08.309 that was an extremely radical idea 708 00:24:08.310 --> 00:24:10.199 that you you know, you make one 709 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:11.929 thing and then you make it again and 710 00:24:11.930 --> 00:24:13.739 and then it just and it just goes 711 00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:14.729 away. 712 00:24:14.730 --> 00:24:16.679 So I think that there, 713 00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:18.989 I do think that's—so 714 00:24:18.990 --> 00:24:20.609 yes, it's both. 715 00:24:20.610 --> 00:24:22.169 It is possible for it to come into 716 00:24:22.170 --> 00:24:23.759 the institution and be collected but 717 00:24:23.760 --> 00:24:25.709 it's also, I 718 00:24:25.710 --> 00:24:27.179 think, deeply critical of that, too, 719 00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:28.180 at the same time. 720 00:24:31.520 --> 00:24:33.259 And if anyone has any questions, 721 00:24:33.260 --> 00:24:34.849 please feel free to 722 00:24:35.930 --> 00:24:37.579 place the question in the chat or 723 00:24:37.580 --> 00:24:39.649 raise your hand physically 724 00:24:39.650 --> 00:24:41.509 or that we have a question 725 00:24:41.510 --> 00:24:43.099 from Charles. 726 00:24:43.100 --> 00:24:44.100 Charles, 727 00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:46.945 I'm going to unmute you. 728 00:24:46.946 --> 00:24:49.609 With respect to the locations 729 00:24:49.610 --> 00:24:51.769 at the museum, does 730 00:24:51.770 --> 00:24:53.749 she choose where she 731 00:24:53.750 --> 00:24:55.759 would like to have her work 732 00:24:55.760 --> 00:24:57.799 placed or does the museum 733 00:24:57.800 --> 00:24:59.659 tell her this is what we 734 00:24:59.660 --> 00:25:01.999 would like to have used 735 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:04.219 and you choose what you put into it 736 00:25:04.220 --> 00:25:05.839 and then after the selections are 737 00:25:05.840 --> 00:25:07.859 made, who makes 738 00:25:07.860 --> 00:25:09.979 the determination as to 739 00:25:09.980 --> 00:25:11.359 where they're placed and how they're 740 00:25:11.360 --> 00:25:12.360 placed? 741 00:25:14.060 --> 00:25:15.169 That's a good question. 742 00:25:15.170 --> 00:25:16.170 Charles. 743 00:25:17.070 --> 00:25:19.020 And in this case, and again, maybe 744 00:25:20.100 --> 00:25:21.989 Lauren wants to speak to this, but.. 745 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:27.839 Actually, I'm remembering there was 746 00:25:27.840 --> 00:25:29.969 a little bit of a history here of 747 00:25:29.970 --> 00:25:32.849 a negotiation in fact, that the 748 00:25:32.850 --> 00:25:34.019 originally I think had there had 749 00:25:34.020 --> 00:25:35.279 been a different idea for her 750 00:25:35.280 --> 00:25:37.289 placement, the placement in general 751 00:25:37.290 --> 00:25:38.219 and then I'll turn it over to 752 00:25:38.220 --> 00:25:40.349 Lauren, is something that 753 00:25:40.350 --> 00:25:42.449 usually is determined by the 754 00:25:42.450 --> 00:25:44.459 the curators who then in 755 00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:46.319 dialog with the artists, 756 00:25:46.320 --> 00:25:48.689 then determine 757 00:25:48.690 --> 00:25:50.339 if a particular placement is the 758 00:25:50.340 --> 00:25:52.460 right one and then, you know, 759 00:25:53.490 --> 00:25:55.199 kind of make a selection of the 760 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:57.479 works based on that. 761 00:25:57.480 --> 00:25:59.459 Lauren, do you want to add anything? 762 00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:01.379 Yeah, I am also remembering 763 00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:02.639 what you're remembering, which is 764 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:04.259 that—I mean, it's a great question 765 00:26:04.260 --> 00:26:06.299 because actually at the Huntington, 766 00:26:06.300 --> 00:26:07.769 the site was very much decided by 767 00:26:07.770 --> 00:26:09.779 the artist and insisted upon 768 00:26:09.780 --> 00:26:10.919 and there was a little bit of 769 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:12.299 negotiation with the Huntington 770 00:26:12.300 --> 00:26:14.249 because, you know, there's a lot 771 00:26:14.250 --> 00:26:16.589 of people involved into 772 00:26:16.590 --> 00:26:18.659 these very manicured landscapes 773 00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:19.559 of the Huntington. So there are 774 00:26:19.560 --> 00:26:21.149 places where it was possible and 775 00:26:21.150 --> 00:26:22.319 safe to have the sculptures. 776 00:26:22.320 --> 00:26:23.609 But the artist was very involved in 777 00:26:23.610 --> 00:26:25.739 deciding sort of where 778 00:26:25.740 --> 00:26:27.599 that would be within the options, 779 00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:29.639 I think if I remember correctly. 780 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:32.039 And at the Hammer, unfortunately, 781 00:26:32.040 --> 00:26:33.959 she did not pick that gallery at 782 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:35.789 the Hammer. We ultimately offered 783 00:26:35.790 --> 00:26:37.409 her this gallery and we're grateful 784 00:26:37.410 --> 00:26:38.789 that she worked with us on it. 785 00:26:38.790 --> 00:26:40.439 But she had an original proposal 786 00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:41.759 that was that she wanted to put her 787 00:26:41.760 --> 00:26:43.409 sculptures throughout the stairs, 788 00:26:43.410 --> 00:26:45.239 that they would go up the lobby 789 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:46.649 stairs. When you're in the lobby and 790 00:26:46.650 --> 00:26:48.539 you're walking up to the courtyard, 791 00:26:48.540 --> 00:26:50.519 she wanted to have them sort of 792 00:26:50.520 --> 00:26:52.349 occupy the stairs and 793 00:26:52.350 --> 00:26:54.239 in a way interfere 794 00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:56.369 with the flow of entering 795 00:26:56.370 --> 00:26:58.049 the museum. And I think that was a 796 00:26:58.050 --> 00:26:59.219 part of it. There's there's an 797 00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:00.629 element of institutional critique, I 798 00:27:00.630 --> 00:27:02.640 think, in some of her ideas, 799 00:27:04.260 --> 00:27:05.260 there's one more thought... 800 00:27:06.330 --> 00:27:08.729 Well, in that sort of placement, 801 00:27:08.730 --> 00:27:10.589 as I recall, Lauren, part of why 802 00:27:10.590 --> 00:27:12.359 the placement. We had institutional 803 00:27:12.360 --> 00:27:14.639 reasons that we didn't want 804 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:16.589 the work to be there, having to do 805 00:27:16.590 --> 00:27:18.239 with safety and insurance and these 806 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:20.069 different things. But also 807 00:27:20.070 --> 00:27:21.449 that was at a time when she was 808 00:27:21.450 --> 00:27:23.099 still in Los Angeles and she was 809 00:27:23.100 --> 00:27:25.439 going to actuall "make the work", 810 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:27.269 right? But then once she 811 00:27:27.270 --> 00:27:29.129 left the city and that 812 00:27:29.130 --> 00:27:30.959 didn't become possible, we were 813 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:32.009 going to we were looking at a 814 00:27:32.010 --> 00:27:33.900 different kind of work, really. 815 00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:39.079 To that point, when was the decision 816 00:27:39.080 --> 00:27:40.080 to... Oh, sorry Lauren, 817 00:27:41.100 --> 00:27:42.929 when was the decision then made 818 00:27:42.930 --> 00:27:45.149 to kind of not 819 00:27:45.150 --> 00:27:46.379 make a work out of it? 820 00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:47.819 I mean, very much, she could have 821 00:27:47.820 --> 00:27:49.649 given instructions and 822 00:27:49.650 --> 00:27:51.479 kind of sent something. 823 00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:53.459 But was it made early on 824 00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:55.259 kind of in kind of pandemic 825 00:27:55.260 --> 00:27:56.999 installation that the work would 826 00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:58.649 just not exist and would only be the 827 00:27:58.650 --> 00:27:59.650 pieces? 828 00:28:01.070 --> 00:28:02.959 Well, before answering that question 829 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:04.789 of yours, Nick with Connie, 830 00:28:04.790 --> 00:28:06.499 just two more little points about 831 00:28:06.500 --> 00:28:08.269 the earlier question about the site, 832 00:28:08.270 --> 00:28:09.769 I do want to say that no matter what 833 00:28:09.770 --> 00:28:11.779 sites she gets or is 834 00:28:11.780 --> 00:28:13.609 allocated, Ser was 835 00:28:13.610 --> 00:28:15.349 very involved in the experience that 836 00:28:15.350 --> 00:28:17.059 you'd have of it. So, for example, 837 00:28:17.060 --> 00:28:18.799 the gallery, the lobby that she's 838 00:28:18.800 --> 00:28:20.030 in, the gallery lobby. 839 00:28:22.070 --> 00:28:24.019 The doors are locked and nobody 840 00:28:24.020 --> 00:28:25.669 can go in and that's a gesture 841 00:28:25.670 --> 00:28:27.439 towards where she is that she made 842 00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:29.509 very strong or 843 00:28:29.510 --> 00:28:30.799 the way in which the works are in a 844 00:28:30.800 --> 00:28:32.629 grid at the Huntington and at 845 00:28:32.630 --> 00:28:34.369 the Hammer is a response to the kind 846 00:28:34.370 --> 00:28:36.199 of space that she was 847 00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:36.769 allocated. 848 00:28:36.770 --> 00:28:38.449 So I think there's an intervention 849 00:28:38.450 --> 00:28:39.919 into the allocated space that in a 850 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:41.367 way, co-ops that allocated space. 851 00:28:41.368 --> 00:28:42.368 And 852 00:28:44.330 --> 00:28:45.469 then I think, Connie, you answered 853 00:28:45.470 --> 00:28:47.359 the question earlier about 854 00:28:47.360 --> 00:28:49.759 kind of when it became a potential 855 00:28:49.760 --> 00:28:51.769 for work instead of a work, which 856 00:28:51.770 --> 00:28:53.269 is that when Covid kind of 857 00:28:53.270 --> 00:28:54.520 interfered with 858 00:28:55.730 --> 00:28:57.139 with her ability to make the work 859 00:28:57.140 --> 00:28:59.059 since the performance of the body in 860 00:28:59.060 --> 00:29:00.889 state and stacking and staging 861 00:29:00.890 --> 00:29:03.949 the sculptures was 862 00:29:03.950 --> 00:29:04.950 interfered with [unintelligible]. 863 00:29:09.490 --> 00:29:10.839 I have a question from there's a 864 00:29:10.840 --> 00:29:12.759 question from Jay 865 00:29:12.760 --> 00:29:15.429 Tolentino, "First 866 00:29:15.430 --> 00:29:17.589 quick comment, is it compelling 867 00:29:17.590 --> 00:29:18.590 that she 'borrows' what 868 00:29:20.410 --> 00:29:22.059 she finds as her work 869 00:29:22.060 --> 00:29:24.129 monumentalizing, money 870 00:29:24.130 --> 00:29:26.079 via platform, then returns the 871 00:29:26.080 --> 00:29:28.119 objects?" And the question 872 00:29:28.120 --> 00:29:30.099 is, "Can you ask 873 00:29:30.100 --> 00:29:31.839 on my behalf, does she think of her 874 00:29:31.840 --> 00:29:33.909 work as intact if 875 00:29:33.910 --> 00:29:35.289 and when it is photographed and 876 00:29:35.290 --> 00:29:36.909 documented, like how we are seeing 877 00:29:36.910 --> 00:29:38.979 it or 878 00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:41.319 where do you think?" Yes, 879 00:29:41.320 --> 00:29:42.249 I guess that would be the first 880 00:29:42.250 --> 00:29:44.319 question. Is the work in tact 881 00:29:44.320 --> 00:29:45.249 when it is photographed and 882 00:29:45.250 --> 00:29:47.319 documented or is it upon 883 00:29:47.320 --> 00:29:48.320 seeing it? 884 00:29:50.170 --> 00:29:51.999 I mean, those are all exactly 885 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:53.439 the questions the work raises, I 886 00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:56.169 think. I mean, I would say 887 00:29:56.170 --> 00:29:57.759 that what we're looking at actually 888 00:29:57.760 --> 00:29:58.989 is not the work. 889 00:29:58.990 --> 00:30:00.879 I think this is what she would say. 890 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:03.009 Is that what the work is 891 00:30:03.010 --> 00:30:04.899 at this moment is what I read to 892 00:30:04.900 --> 00:30:06.670 you is that text. 893 00:30:07.780 --> 00:30:09.579 So actually what the work is, is the 894 00:30:09.580 --> 00:30:11.409 kind of potential for an artwork 895 00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:12.399 to become. 896 00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:14.289 And I think there still 897 00:30:14.290 --> 00:30:16.659 is the hope that once the show opens 898 00:30:16.660 --> 00:30:18.279 and she comes to Los Angeles, it 899 00:30:18.280 --> 00:30:19.749 could be that it even becomes 900 00:30:19.750 --> 00:30:21.999 something happens, I don't know. 901 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:23.739 And that's also I mean, there's so 902 00:30:23.740 --> 00:30:25.269 many historical precedents for that. 903 00:30:25.270 --> 00:30:27.189 It's really this idea that the work 904 00:30:27.190 --> 00:30:28.479 could change over time. 905 00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:30.279 So but right now, it it exists in a 906 00:30:30.280 --> 00:30:31.899 state of kind of potential. 907 00:30:31.900 --> 00:30:33.939 And so what you saw, what was 908 00:30:33.940 --> 00:30:35.559 photographed is not the work. 909 00:30:35.560 --> 00:30:38.319 What was photographed is somehow 910 00:30:38.320 --> 00:30:40.329 a document, I would say, of 911 00:30:40.330 --> 00:30:41.330 something that's in-between, 912 00:30:43.510 --> 00:30:44.650 which I think is 913 00:30:45.820 --> 00:30:47.919 perfect. I mean, it's exactly 914 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:49.749 where she is most 915 00:30:49.750 --> 00:30:51.099 comfortable with the work. 916 00:30:51.100 --> 00:30:53.799 In a way. I think this question 917 00:30:53.800 --> 00:30:54.800 that's in 918 00:30:55.780 --> 00:30:57.639 question here in the chat, 919 00:30:57.640 --> 00:30:59.589 this notion of borrowing, I think is 920 00:30:59.590 --> 00:31:01.119 quite interesting, borrowing and 921 00:31:01.120 --> 00:31:02.559 returning. 922 00:31:02.560 --> 00:31:04.089 And again, I think it's a way of... 923 00:31:06.970 --> 00:31:08.869 It's almost as though she 924 00:31:08.870 --> 00:31:10.929 sort of honors the materials more 925 00:31:10.930 --> 00:31:12.819 than she honors what they become 926 00:31:12.820 --> 00:31:14.079 or what they could potentially 927 00:31:14.080 --> 00:31:15.819 become like, the materials have a 928 00:31:15.820 --> 00:31:17.859 life before us and 929 00:31:17.860 --> 00:31:19.419 they're going to have a life after 930 00:31:19.420 --> 00:31:20.420 the Hammer Museum 931 00:31:21.430 --> 00:31:23.559 that somehow supersedes 932 00:31:23.560 --> 00:31:24.909 whatever it is that they might 933 00:31:24.910 --> 00:31:26.919 become at the Hammer Museum. 934 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:28.809 So that almost becomes a further 935 00:31:28.810 --> 00:31:30.729 kind of, you 936 00:31:30.730 --> 00:31:32.229 know, double negative, if you will, 937 00:31:32.230 --> 00:31:33.459 or a further kind of way of 938 00:31:33.460 --> 00:31:35.559 devaluing the 939 00:31:35.560 --> 00:31:37.539 status as sculpture if if 940 00:31:37.540 --> 00:31:39.100 it ever becomes such. 941 00:31:40.320 --> 00:31:42.179 If that's clear, but the 942 00:31:42.180 --> 00:31:44.699 borrowing is is quite a nice 943 00:31:44.700 --> 00:31:45.839 part of the work, I think. 944 00:31:50.590 --> 00:31:51.819 I think we have time for one more 945 00:31:51.820 --> 00:31:54.039 question, one last question. 946 00:31:54.040 --> 00:31:55.749 We have a question from Nancy 947 00:31:55.750 --> 00:31:56.750 Berman. 948 00:31:58.670 --> 00:32:00.499 "How is it decided that her work 949 00:32:00.500 --> 00:32:02.599 at the Huntington would be outside? 950 00:32:02.600 --> 00:32:04.489 Was that an offer to her out 951 00:32:04.490 --> 00:32:06.109 of out of her desire?" 952 00:32:09.170 --> 00:32:11.359 Thanks for the question, Nancy. 953 00:32:11.360 --> 00:32:13.309 As Lauren says, it was actually 954 00:32:13.310 --> 00:32:14.840 the site that she preferred, 955 00:32:15.860 --> 00:32:18.019 but it does it does raise interest 956 00:32:18.020 --> 00:32:19.609 or just reminds me to tell you that 957 00:32:19.610 --> 00:32:21.379 there are, of course, interesting 958 00:32:21.380 --> 00:32:23.239 institutional questions always with 959 00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:25.069 this work, like we were that 960 00:32:25.070 --> 00:32:26.629 lobby gallery at the Hammer, 961 00:32:26.630 --> 00:32:28.669 unbeknownst to probably most of you, 962 00:32:28.670 --> 00:32:30.409 has a lot of restrictions in it 963 00:32:30.410 --> 00:32:31.410 because 964 00:32:32.810 --> 00:32:34.999 it isn't climatized. 965 00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:36.769 You know, it has issues with light. 966 00:32:36.770 --> 00:32:38.659 It's actually very restrictive what 967 00:32:38.660 --> 00:32:40.699 can be shown there. 968 00:32:40.700 --> 00:32:42.619 And the other thing I would say is 969 00:32:42.620 --> 00:32:44.059 when you bring trash in off the 970 00:32:44.060 --> 00:32:46.159 street, the museum or 971 00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:48.229 any museum needs to impose 972 00:32:48.230 --> 00:32:49.819 all kinds of restrictions on that 973 00:32:49.820 --> 00:32:51.499 because you can't bring bugs in, you 974 00:32:51.500 --> 00:32:52.729 can't bring in mold. 975 00:32:52.730 --> 00:32:54.769 You can't you know, you have to put 976 00:32:54.770 --> 00:32:55.879 fire retardant. 977 00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:58.219 So you do all of these things to it 978 00:32:58.220 --> 00:32:59.929 then in a way kind of kill the 979 00:32:59.930 --> 00:33:02.119 materials ability to actually 980 00:33:02.120 --> 00:33:04.309 just be a found object 981 00:33:04.310 --> 00:33:05.569 in a funny way. 982 00:33:05.570 --> 00:33:07.639 So she so I'm guessing 983 00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:08.809 that part of her decision at the 984 00:33:08.810 --> 00:33:11.239 Huntington was about being outside 985 00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:12.709 was maybe to have a different kind 986 00:33:12.710 --> 00:33:14.509 of context in which to work. 987 00:33:14.510 --> 00:33:15.889 So you have the in gallery, the 988 00:33:15.890 --> 00:33:17.869 institutional, very restrictive 989 00:33:17.870 --> 00:33:19.849 kind of situation on one hand and 990 00:33:19.850 --> 00:33:21.859 then the outside, which appears 991 00:33:21.860 --> 00:33:23.779 to be more open-ended, although 992 00:33:23.780 --> 00:33:25.199 I think. 993 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:26.489 You know, has also its other 994 00:33:26.490 --> 00:33:27.839 restrictions. Yeah, Lauren. 995 00:33:31.370 --> 00:33:32.370 Lauren you are muted. 996 00:33:34.550 --> 00:33:36.289 I just wanted to say that she did 997 00:33:36.290 --> 00:33:38.059 pick that site among options 998 00:33:38.060 --> 00:33:39.949 outside, but originally, if I 999 00:33:39.950 --> 00:33:41.569 remember correctly, she would have 1000 00:33:41.570 --> 00:33:43.159 been open to being inside, but it 1001 00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:44.160 wasn't possible. 1002 00:33:45.320 --> 00:33:47.239 She would have been open to that 1003 00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:49.069 originally, but the Huntington had 1004 00:33:49.070 --> 00:33:50.749 all of the issues that you just 1005 00:33:50.750 --> 00:33:52.339 brought up, which was it was very 1006 00:33:52.340 --> 00:33:54.259 hard to put that kind of work 1007 00:33:54.260 --> 00:33:56.029 with all of its unpredictabilities 1008 00:33:56.030 --> 00:33:57.920 into either 1009 00:33:58.940 --> 00:34:00.379 a series of galleries that are close 1010 00:34:00.380 --> 00:34:02.329 to a permanent collection or into a 1011 00:34:02.330 --> 00:34:04.369 gallery that's close to a storage 1012 00:34:04.370 --> 00:34:06.199 into all kinds of other tools of 1013 00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:07.729 inspections. I just want to clarify, 1014 00:34:07.730 --> 00:34:08.959 because I didn't want to mislead you 1015 00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:09.960 guys. 1016 00:34:14.590 --> 00:34:16.988 Well, thank you all for your your 1017 00:34:16.989 --> 00:34:18.549 great questions, I think you find 1018 00:34:18.550 --> 00:34:20.379 the work as thought provoking as 1019 00:34:20.380 --> 00:34:21.380 I do. So 1020 00:34:22.510 --> 00:34:24.009 thanks for your attention and I look 1021 00:34:24.010 --> 00:34:25.509 forward to being able to welcome you 1022 00:34:25.510 --> 00:34:26.859 all to see it. We all want you to 1023 00:34:26.860 --> 00:34:28.439 come see it. So hopefully soon.