WEBVTT

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So apropos of Pacific Standard Time

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and our current Ed Ruscha

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exhibition.

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The timing could not be better for

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the release of the new book by

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Hunter Drohojowska-Philp

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called Rebels and Paradise.

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The Los Angeles Art Scene in the

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1960s.

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Her book tells the back story of how

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a group of renegade artists,

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including Ed Ruscha, David Hockney,

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Robert Irwin, Ed Moses,

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Ed Kienholtz, Judy Chicago,

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John Baldessari, Larry Bell

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and many others were drawn to Los

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Angeles in the 50s and 60s

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to form a new arena for contemporary

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art.

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During her career as a journalist

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and art critic specializing in art,

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design and architecture, Hunter's

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published several books, including

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the biography Full Bloom The Art and

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Life of Georgia O'Keeffe.

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She writes for Art News magazine has

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also contributed to art in America.

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Artforum Artnet.

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The L.A. Times has written

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exhibition catalog essays on the

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work of artist John Baldessari,

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Craig Kaufman and Lexis Smith.

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Tonight, Hunters joined by legendary

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Hollywood writer and artist's muse

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Eve Babitz.

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It was once said by an anonymous

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admirer In every young man's

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life, there's an easy Babitz

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and usually it's Eve.

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Is a true child of Hollywood

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who is famous as much for living her

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life to the fullest.

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As for the brilliant and daring way

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she writes about it in her tell all

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memoirs in the 1960s

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and 70s, everyone knew Eve and

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Eve knew everyone.

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Including Neil Young.

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Gram Parsons. Stephen Sills.

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Jim Morrison.

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Jim Elliott.

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The whole Farris crowd.

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Steve Martin, etc..

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Her short stories, essays and novels

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published everywhere, including

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Esquire, Ms.

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Magazine and Vogue,

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reveal a glamorous and

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unapologetically wild world.

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Her books have been compared to the

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writings of Joan Didion, Nathaniel

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West and John Fante and include

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Eve's Hollywood, which I have a

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vintage copy of here.

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Sex and Rage and Slow Times,

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Fast Company, The World, The Flesh

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and L.A.

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and they're currently out of print,

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but well worth the hunt.

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So clearly, both of these women are

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a lot more interesting than hearing

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me talk about them.

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So please join me in welcoming to

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the stage Hunter

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Drohojowska-Philp and Eve

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Babitz.

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Good evening.

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Good evening.

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Does this work?

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Does it make everyone, man.

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It's great to see all of our friends

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out there, isn't it?

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And we don't even know out there.

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So.

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My book, Rebels in Paradise,

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was in part inspired by

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Eve Babitz and

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also by Andrew Shay.

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Two people I really find

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have found could be continually

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inspirational.

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The years I've lived in Los Angeles

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and in part because I think his work

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is so really

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amazingly and indescribably

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intertwined with my own experiences

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of Los Angeles and Eve,

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because I've known him for many,

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many years. And her stories about

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growing up in Hollywood.

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Her stories about being here during

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the 1960s.

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Knowing the people who are in this

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book and and

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some people I knew before I started

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writing it and others I didn't.

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Her story is really in a way,

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I think provided help, helped me

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find a tone of voice to write

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this book.

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And

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I really know.

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I know people who teach Eve Babitz

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as books

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for tone and voice

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in writing.

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And so if any of you have not had

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the treat of reading her books, I

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suggest you give it a try

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anyway. So that's why I asked one

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of Eve to be here with me this

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evening.

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In addition to the fact that

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she was here and I wasn't, so

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I had to live vicariously through

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the 60s and I

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and but she actually was here.

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So she's going to have a more

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truthful approach.

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So we'll start.

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First of all, this

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image behind me is the famous

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one. Many of you probably know it's

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this is, of course, as Andy Warhol

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on the left, and that's Billy all

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Bengston and Dennis Hopper and

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Irving Blombos behind.

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And they are addressed in tuxedos

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because they are

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involved with going to the reception

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for Marcel Duchamp's retrospective,

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which was a great formal occasion in

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Los Angeles.

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And but.

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But we have to back up a little bit

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further before we get to that point

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and go to.

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Well, let's go to photograph

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number three, Walter Hopps.

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There we go.

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So as

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many of you know,

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Walter Hobson, Ed Can't Holtze

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founded Ferris Gallery in 1957,

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and a few years later, a friend of

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Eve's took her there.

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So you would you tell us about your

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first experience of Ferris gallery?

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Well, my mother kept trying to drag

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me over there.

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But anything my mother wanted me

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to do, I would never do

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with my mother.

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And your mother was an artist.

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Yes. But I mean, it was

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just that was just you know,

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I met this girl at Ellis, S.C.

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She said, you're IEF habits, are

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you?

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I said, yes.

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She said, well, I'm going to take

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you over to I'm going to take

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you over to Barney's Beanery and

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I'm going to take you to all these

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art shows on

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La Cienega.

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I said, oh, OK, so I'm going to

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pick you up in a porch.

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I said, great.

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So it was you know, I had to

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be dragged there.

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Right. If my mother dragged me

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there, I wouldn't have liked it.

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So I had to be dragged there by

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somebody else who thought it was

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just great in a Porsche,

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in a Porsche.

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Myrna, Myrna.

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And she she took

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me over to. We went to Barney's

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Beanery.

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And then afterwards,

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I think that was one of the times

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of the ED keynotes shows.

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I would think the first time I ever

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saw that the Roxy show.

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And she introduced me to every

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single person in Barney's

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spinning me. And then she

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disappeared.

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So I guess she was sent by the art

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God.

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So that was how I she

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introduced me to to Walter

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and Irving.

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But Walter said he met me before

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at a poetry reading at my house

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because my mother gave poetry

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readings.

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So, you know, he was like he

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thought my mother was great

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as well.

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Russia thought your mother was

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great. That's good.

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That's right.

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Almost everyone thought your mother

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was great. But she's your mother.

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So it's striking me these place.

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I wouldn't go

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so to fast forward a little bit.

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Walter Hopps, of course, organizes

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the famous Marcel Duchamp

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retrospective.

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And and it's

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not the retrospective is important,

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but even more important is the party

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after the retrospective opening.

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Everybody wants to go to this party

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at the Green Hotel and everyone

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in L.A. seems to be invited

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except Eve.

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So if you tell us the story

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of how you happened to go to the

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party and what happened next.

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Well, I didn't go to the party.

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I didn't go to the.

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I didn't go to that whole thing.

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I actually Julian invited me

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to go. He said there's nothing

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to it. I said, I can't go in

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the sea and fight for you and I'm

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not going.

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So he took my poor sister

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and I stayed home and,

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you know.

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Wallowed in agony.

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But then Julian asked.

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Asked you to come back to the

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Pasadena Museum to play chess

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with Marcel de Chavez, and now we

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need image. The famous image number

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four of Babitz and

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Marcel.

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And then tell us the story of how

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this came about.

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Well,

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it was Julian's idea.

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Well, let's blame it on Julia.

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Julia.

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Julia is supposed to be here.

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Is Gillian here tonight?

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OK, carry on.

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It was Julian's idea.

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He had a light bulb over his head.

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He took it just like he said I've

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got.

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He said we should take this

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picture of you played chess

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with Marcel naked.

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And I thought.

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That sounds like in the moralizer

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to me,

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usually the immortalizes

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you do never turn out that way.

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But to back up, we also are doing

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this because even even Walter,

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we're having a little

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friendship.

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And and he and

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he and it was even worse that he

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hadn't invited her to this party cos

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he was her friend.

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I called him ninety seven times.

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My mother call them.

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Nothing worked.

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So he didn't invite me.

287
00:09:25.540 --> 00:09:27.579
The reason he didn't invite me

288
00:09:27.580 --> 00:09:29.080
was because his wife was there.

289
00:09:30.580 --> 00:09:32.859
And so, you know, I.

290
00:09:32.860 --> 00:09:34.359
He walked in the next say, well,

291
00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:35.909
this photograph was being taken.

292
00:09:37.330 --> 00:09:38.379
Well, first you to back up

293
00:09:40.020 --> 00:09:41.949
what back back up,

294
00:09:41.950 --> 00:09:43.839
explain how how Julian set it

295
00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:44.840
up.

296
00:09:45.280 --> 00:09:47.259
Well, Julianne set it up so that

297
00:09:47.260 --> 00:09:49.359
it took place at like six o'clock

298
00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:51.519
in the morning, which is fine

299
00:09:51.520 --> 00:09:53.649
with me because, you know, I

300
00:09:53.650 --> 00:09:55.509
didn't want any of these moving guys

301
00:09:55.510 --> 00:09:57.580
or whatever to come into the museum.

302
00:09:58.600 --> 00:09:59.559
And we were.

303
00:09:59.560 --> 00:10:01.389
He picked me up at like seven

304
00:10:01.390 --> 00:10:03.519
o'clock when everything

305
00:10:03.520 --> 00:10:05.929
took 20 minutes in those days.

306
00:10:05.930 --> 00:10:07.899
Do you know now it takes like

307
00:10:07.900 --> 00:10:09.789
12 years. But those

308
00:10:09.790 --> 00:10:11.979
days it took 20 minutes.

309
00:10:11.980 --> 00:10:13.809
So we got to Pasadena

310
00:10:13.810 --> 00:10:15.279
where this museum was.

311
00:10:15.280 --> 00:10:17.139
And he would

312
00:10:17.140 --> 00:10:19.329
he said, okay,

313
00:10:19.330 --> 00:10:20.619
you could go up and change your

314
00:10:20.620 --> 00:10:21.789
clothes.

315
00:10:21.790 --> 00:10:23.709
So I put on one of John

316
00:10:23.710 --> 00:10:25.629
Altuna shirts, which is up there.

317
00:10:26.860 --> 00:10:28.209
I thought, I'm not really going to

318
00:10:28.210 --> 00:10:30.039
do this because, you know,

319
00:10:30.040 --> 00:10:32.139
it's really it may be

320
00:10:32.140 --> 00:10:33.579
immortalizing, but I'm not going to

321
00:10:33.580 --> 00:10:34.580
really do it.

322
00:10:35.650 --> 00:10:37.479
But Julian set up all

323
00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:38.469
these lights.

324
00:10:38.470 --> 00:10:40.869
It took them like an hour.

325
00:10:40.870 --> 00:10:42.909
And when Marcel showed

326
00:10:42.910 --> 00:10:44.319
up, he was.

327
00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:45.999
He arrived at like 10 o'clock in the

328
00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.279
morning and he'd look brilliant.

329
00:10:48.280 --> 00:10:50.289
He had just come back from

330
00:10:51.380 --> 00:10:53.079
Las Vegas Sands all

331
00:10:54.250 --> 00:10:55.039
had this suit.

332
00:10:55.040 --> 00:10:57.009
This incredible outfit on

333
00:10:57.010 --> 00:10:59.319
and including a hat.

334
00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:01.239
And so I thought really I

335
00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:02.619
could beat him at chess.

336
00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:04.899
That was you know, I thought,

337
00:11:04.900 --> 00:11:06.279
you know, that, you know, he's

338
00:11:06.280 --> 00:11:07.419
supposed to be so good.

339
00:11:07.420 --> 00:11:09.559
But I bet I could beat him.

340
00:11:09.560 --> 00:11:10.179
So.

341
00:11:10.180 --> 00:11:12.039
So that was my scam

342
00:11:12.040 --> 00:11:13.040
going in there.

343
00:11:13.870 --> 00:11:15.579
Then he beat beat me three times at

344
00:11:15.580 --> 00:11:17.109
full speed, which I didn't know what

345
00:11:17.110 --> 00:11:18.669
that was until that time.

346
00:11:19.930 --> 00:11:21.939
So I've been humiliated ever

347
00:11:21.940 --> 00:11:22.940
since.

348
00:11:24.220 --> 00:11:25.719
Did he even react at all when you

349
00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:27.159
took your clothes off that you're

350
00:11:27.160 --> 00:11:28.479
completely naked? Did he have any

351
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:29.480
reaction?

352
00:11:30.560 --> 00:11:32.320
No, I use it all law

353
00:11:39.270 --> 00:11:40.270
threat.

354
00:11:42.780 --> 00:11:44.339
But then Walter walked in.

355
00:11:44.340 --> 00:11:45.869
Yes, Walter White did.

356
00:11:45.870 --> 00:11:47.759
And he was he was

357
00:11:47.760 --> 00:11:49.769
chewing gum and he dropped his gun.

358
00:11:53.190 --> 00:11:55.049
So that was, you know, I

359
00:11:55.050 --> 00:11:56.819
got some revenge.

360
00:11:56.820 --> 00:11:58.709
But I really do like to go

361
00:11:58.710 --> 00:12:00.269
to parties.

362
00:12:00.270 --> 00:12:01.919
If you don't invite me to a party,

363
00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:03.269
expect revenge.

364
00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:06.929
Well, then Walter made amends in a

365
00:12:06.930 --> 00:12:08.459
way I didn't do.

366
00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:09.989
Then you take it to San Francisco.

367
00:12:09.990 --> 00:12:10.990
Yes, he did.

368
00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:13.299
He took me to San Francisco.

369
00:12:13.300 --> 00:12:14.449
He said, okay.

370
00:12:14.450 --> 00:12:16.289
What would you rather do here,

371
00:12:16.290 --> 00:12:18.199
Bob Dylan? Or go to San Francisco

372
00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:19.500
and see that beard play?

373
00:12:20.890 --> 00:12:22.809
I didn't know what either of those

374
00:12:22.810 --> 00:12:24.639
were. But so I said,

375
00:12:24.640 --> 00:12:26.919
let's go to San Francisco.

376
00:12:26.920 --> 00:12:28.459
So that was it.

377
00:12:28.460 --> 00:12:30.009
To hear Michael McClure.

378
00:12:30.010 --> 00:12:30.619
Yes.

379
00:12:30.620 --> 00:12:31.869
Michael McClure's play the beard

380
00:12:31.870 --> 00:12:33.189
more to the point.

381
00:12:33.190 --> 00:12:34.549
That's right.

382
00:12:34.550 --> 00:12:36.309
And so that was your lot, your

383
00:12:37.570 --> 00:12:39.339
your debut in the L.A.

384
00:12:39.340 --> 00:12:40.809
art world.

385
00:12:40.810 --> 00:12:42.309
I guess you could call it that

386
00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:45.549
later.

387
00:12:45.550 --> 00:12:47.509
But, you know, you and

388
00:12:47.510 --> 00:12:48.939
Walter were friends for many four

389
00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:50.499
long years and years and years and

390
00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:50.769
years.

391
00:12:50.770 --> 00:12:52.149
We're still friends.

392
00:12:52.150 --> 00:12:53.709
In fact, if he doesn't go back soon,

393
00:12:53.710 --> 00:12:54.940
I'm going to leave this phone booth.

394
00:12:57.310 --> 00:12:58.619
Did he?

395
00:12:58.620 --> 00:13:00.159
But you told me he used to he used

396
00:13:00.160 --> 00:13:02.139
to take you to Eagle Rock to

397
00:13:02.140 --> 00:13:03.369
find Black Beauties.

398
00:13:03.370 --> 00:13:04.839
That's right. He was the speed

399
00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:05.840
thing.

400
00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:08.349
So what would you do, where would

401
00:13:08.350 --> 00:13:09.099
you find them?

402
00:13:09.100 --> 00:13:10.529
You told me recently where you was

403
00:13:10.530 --> 00:13:13.389
like this weird Harley Davidson

404
00:13:13.390 --> 00:13:15.729
bike bar that was

405
00:13:15.730 --> 00:13:17.679
incredibly tiny and

406
00:13:17.680 --> 00:13:19.829
it was like polished to

407
00:13:19.830 --> 00:13:22.089
adjust to a T..

408
00:13:22.090 --> 00:13:25.069
And that's where he got his speed

409
00:13:25.070 --> 00:13:26.320
that nobody knew about.

410
00:13:27.570 --> 00:13:29.699
That was like Mary Jewel

411
00:13:29.700 --> 00:13:30.869
because people didn't really know

412
00:13:30.870 --> 00:13:31.829
them, did they?

413
00:13:31.830 --> 00:13:33.549
They didn't know about taking drugs.

414
00:13:33.550 --> 00:13:34.619
Well, they know what taking speed,

415
00:13:34.620 --> 00:13:35.539
probably.

416
00:13:35.540 --> 00:13:36.689
Maybe.

417
00:13:36.690 --> 00:13:37.679
Or did they?

418
00:13:37.680 --> 00:13:39.479
Well, I mean, he drove everywhere in

419
00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:41.219
the gallery, in the museum.

420
00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:42.779
Crazy by keeping them up for three

421
00:13:42.780 --> 00:13:43.780
days.

422
00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:49.519
So we'll see.

423
00:13:49.520 --> 00:13:51.359
Did he call you from the Sao Paolo B

424
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:52.169
and Alec?

425
00:13:52.170 --> 00:13:53.170
Yes, he led.

426
00:13:54.590 --> 00:13:56.479
No, he said he would he cut.

427
00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:58.489
He didn't call me from there.

428
00:13:58.490 --> 00:14:00.259
He he got when he got back.

429
00:14:00.260 --> 00:14:02.609
He brought me this airplane.

430
00:14:04.070 --> 00:14:06.289
Like cloud plastic

431
00:14:06.290 --> 00:14:07.519
thing, which I get for the rest of

432
00:14:07.520 --> 00:14:08.749
my life.

433
00:14:08.750 --> 00:14:09.860
I don't know where it is.

434
00:14:11.420 --> 00:14:13.169
It's like you said.

435
00:14:13.170 --> 00:14:15.049
But I didn't know that he was

436
00:14:15.050 --> 00:14:16.909
like actually like totally

437
00:14:16.910 --> 00:14:18.769
involved in the international

438
00:14:18.770 --> 00:14:19.770
art scene.

439
00:14:20.750 --> 00:14:22.669
Because he was, you know,

440
00:14:22.670 --> 00:14:23.979
always in L.A.

441
00:14:23.980 --> 00:14:25.489
and so that was where I thought.

442
00:14:25.490 --> 00:14:26.809
But then I found out that he was

443
00:14:26.810 --> 00:14:27.619
always, you know.

444
00:14:27.620 --> 00:14:30.859
Then he was like in Dallas.

445
00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:32.509
So I kept hoping for him to come

446
00:14:32.510 --> 00:14:33.510
back.

447
00:14:34.290 --> 00:14:35.469
For the meantime, you also were

448
00:14:35.470 --> 00:14:37.029
friends with Russia.

449
00:14:37.030 --> 00:14:38.110
Yes. Thank God

450
00:14:39.410 --> 00:14:40.929
I see you in person.

451
00:14:40.930 --> 00:14:42.129
Yeah, a sane person.

452
00:14:42.130 --> 00:14:43.990
That's true. Tell me how you met Ed.

453
00:14:45.340 --> 00:14:46.489
I met Ed at the fair.

454
00:14:46.490 --> 00:14:47.559
Scary.

455
00:14:47.560 --> 00:14:49.509
And he was wearing the sailors

456
00:14:49.510 --> 00:14:50.950
outfit because he was a sailor.

457
00:14:52.660 --> 00:14:54.039
He was in Fort Lee. I was involved

458
00:14:54.040 --> 00:14:55.299
with the reserves in the Naval

459
00:14:55.300 --> 00:14:56.619
Reserves.

460
00:14:56.620 --> 00:14:59.199
And it was like, unbelievable.

461
00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:00.729
I might have to ask at this point

462
00:15:00.730 --> 00:15:01.730
for you to put up

463
00:15:02.920 --> 00:15:04.110
image number five.

464
00:15:05.310 --> 00:15:07.259
Which is Ed and Joe

465
00:15:07.260 --> 00:15:09.299
and Jerry McMillan and Pat

466
00:15:09.300 --> 00:15:10.559
Blackwell in their studio.

467
00:15:11.910 --> 00:15:13.039
A little ad?

468
00:15:13.040 --> 00:15:14.179
Well, yeah.

469
00:15:14.180 --> 00:15:15.119
And so he shows up.

470
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:16.329
Yes. New management is actually

471
00:15:16.330 --> 00:15:17.259
wearing a naval.

472
00:15:17.260 --> 00:15:18.960
A naval officer was unbelievable.

473
00:15:22.270 --> 00:15:23.919
So what did you do? What did you do?

474
00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:24.879
Didn't you. Didn't you bring him

475
00:15:24.880 --> 00:15:26.019
home to meet your parents?

476
00:15:27.170 --> 00:15:28.459
I. Yes.

477
00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:29.929
Well, I'm yes, I took him for

478
00:15:29.930 --> 00:15:31.189
Thanksgiving.

479
00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:32.689
That was the funny story that he

480
00:15:32.690 --> 00:15:34.589
told to.

481
00:15:34.590 --> 00:15:35.590
He said,

482
00:15:36.940 --> 00:15:38.419
do you remember that line that he

483
00:15:38.420 --> 00:15:39.440
said about my mother?

484
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:42.349
Even my Babitz

485
00:15:42.350 --> 00:15:44.639
sure treats her boys

486
00:15:44.640 --> 00:15:45.640
well. Well,

487
00:15:47.510 --> 00:15:48.769
these boys were all starving to

488
00:15:48.770 --> 00:15:50.179
death. So Eve's mother was like the

489
00:15:50.180 --> 00:15:51.409
only person cooking.

490
00:15:51.410 --> 00:15:53.269
So they would all go to Eve's house

491
00:15:53.270 --> 00:15:55.249
to eat. I heard that this mother.

492
00:15:55.250 --> 00:15:57.379
So, you know, ducks

493
00:15:57.380 --> 00:15:59.299
from the Echo Park

494
00:16:02.690 --> 00:16:03.499
in order to eat.

495
00:16:03.500 --> 00:16:04.500
That's right.

496
00:16:09.050 --> 00:16:11.359
But Ed worked at the, you know, that

497
00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:12.369
hot dog stand.

498
00:16:12.370 --> 00:16:13.879
So I felt that he must have been

499
00:16:13.880 --> 00:16:15.679
supplied with food somehow.

500
00:16:15.680 --> 00:16:16.909
You know, they're working with a

501
00:16:16.910 --> 00:16:18.019
called Courcelles.

502
00:16:18.020 --> 00:16:19.009
Yes. Yes.

503
00:16:19.010 --> 00:16:20.239
That's where a lot of them worked.

504
00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:21.229
Yes, that's right.

505
00:16:21.230 --> 00:16:23.599
So Ed was working there and

506
00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:25.069
you met Joe Good around that time,

507
00:16:25.070 --> 00:16:25.729
too, didn't you?

508
00:16:25.730 --> 00:16:26.730
Yes.

509
00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:30.619
My sister was

510
00:16:30.620 --> 00:16:31.620
his friend,

511
00:16:34.260 --> 00:16:35.529
so.

512
00:16:35.530 --> 00:16:37.759
So. So at

513
00:16:37.760 --> 00:16:39.389
what point out that why don't you

514
00:16:39.390 --> 00:16:40.679
tell us a little about a little bit

515
00:16:40.680 --> 00:16:41.699
about that?

516
00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:43.439
You can go to slide.

517
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.149
I should say my next moving my

518
00:16:45.150 --> 00:16:47.129
floodlight go to

519
00:16:47.130 --> 00:16:48.489
go to like every show fly.

520
00:16:48.490 --> 00:16:49.499
In case you don't know what Young

521
00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:51.299
overshared look like.

522
00:16:51.300 --> 00:16:52.619
This photograph taken by Dennis

523
00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:54.449
Hopper, of course.

524
00:16:54.450 --> 00:16:55.979
So tell us a little bit about your

525
00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:56.980
parents.

526
00:16:57.660 --> 00:16:59.519
Well, my father was a musician

527
00:16:59.520 --> 00:17:01.439
at Fox and he

528
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:02.969
was a violinist.

529
00:17:02.970 --> 00:17:05.029
Yet, like, that was about as lucky

530
00:17:05.030 --> 00:17:06.568
a job you could get if you were a

531
00:17:06.569 --> 00:17:08.549
musician, because

532
00:17:08.550 --> 00:17:10.739
it was you know, you got Pete

533
00:17:10.740 --> 00:17:11.740
regularly

534
00:17:13.530 --> 00:17:15.299
instead of now.

535
00:17:15.300 --> 00:17:17.309
So it was pretty good.

536
00:17:17.310 --> 00:17:19.169
And he and my mother

537
00:17:19.170 --> 00:17:21.239
was an artist and a sort

538
00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:23.279
of a nonstop

539
00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:25.499
party giver soiree rate

540
00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:27.989
or at always

541
00:17:27.990 --> 00:17:29.669
coming up with brilliant ideas of

542
00:17:29.670 --> 00:17:30.670
how to have fun.

543
00:17:32.560 --> 00:17:33.909
So everybody went to your house.

544
00:17:33.910 --> 00:17:34.910
That's right.

545
00:17:35.950 --> 00:17:37.569
And that's why. How you happens to

546
00:17:37.570 --> 00:17:38.589
be the goddaughter.

547
00:17:38.590 --> 00:17:39.969
Igor Stravinsky.

548
00:17:39.970 --> 00:17:41.239
Yes.

549
00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.539
And and so actually, your

550
00:17:43.540 --> 00:17:45.789
father was, I think, a musicologist.

551
00:17:45.790 --> 00:17:47.039
No. Is.

552
00:17:47.040 --> 00:17:48.039
Yeah. So.

553
00:17:48.040 --> 00:17:50.109
So here they are having this kind of

554
00:17:50.110 --> 00:17:52.659
Boquete this European bohemian

555
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:55.269
life at Hollywood with all the art

556
00:17:55.270 --> 00:17:56.650
of the artists would drop around.

557
00:17:57.820 --> 00:17:59.109
That's right.

558
00:17:59.110 --> 00:18:01.139
And make a home for Ed

559
00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:02.999
and Joe from Oklahoma City.

560
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.299
That's right. So what was Ed like

561
00:18:04.300 --> 00:18:05.589
that way? Tell us what it was like

562
00:18:05.590 --> 00:18:07.089
in those days.

563
00:18:07.090 --> 00:18:08.319
Oh, he was so much fun.

564
00:18:10.750 --> 00:18:11.750
What would you do?

565
00:18:12.670 --> 00:18:14.739
Well, I think my first

566
00:18:14.740 --> 00:18:16.449
date we went we drove down, sets the

567
00:18:16.450 --> 00:18:17.359
boulevard.

568
00:18:17.360 --> 00:18:19.299
And he'd never had Mexican food

569
00:18:19.300 --> 00:18:20.679
before.

570
00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:22.419
So I take I took him to Olvera

571
00:18:22.420 --> 00:18:24.249
Street to the my the

572
00:18:24.250 --> 00:18:26.259
best Mexican restaurant I knew down

573
00:18:26.260 --> 00:18:27.189
there.

574
00:18:27.190 --> 00:18:30.399
And he was so amazed.

575
00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:32.439
It was like he has been amazed

576
00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:34.269
ever since. He just loves

577
00:18:34.270 --> 00:18:36.479
Mexican food. Now it is just great.

578
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.569
And I say we

579
00:18:38.570 --> 00:18:40.139
eat. I don't know.

580
00:18:40.140 --> 00:18:42.489
We were you know, it was just great

581
00:18:42.490 --> 00:18:44.309
enchiladas until our

582
00:18:44.310 --> 00:18:46.899
ranchers with avocado.

583
00:18:46.900 --> 00:18:48.759
So I was like, I don't

584
00:18:48.760 --> 00:18:50.259
know how anybody could actually

585
00:18:50.260 --> 00:18:51.669
digest this anymore.

586
00:18:51.670 --> 00:18:53.509
But at the time, it

587
00:18:53.510 --> 00:18:55.689
seemed like a sensible

588
00:18:55.690 --> 00:18:56.379
idea.

589
00:18:56.380 --> 00:18:57.910
With beer, with beer.

590
00:18:59.110 --> 00:19:00.459
That's the case.

591
00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:01.959
That's the answer.

592
00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:03.359
How all those Mexican food.

593
00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:04.149
Right.

594
00:19:04.150 --> 00:19:06.049
They mentioned

595
00:19:06.050 --> 00:19:07.929
related mentions show up in his

596
00:19:07.930 --> 00:19:08.930
paintings.

597
00:19:09.760 --> 00:19:10.899
So, yeah.

598
00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:12.849
So I have a story in here

599
00:19:12.850 --> 00:19:14.679
about when you when you

600
00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:16.149
go to a Mexican restaurant and he

601
00:19:16.150 --> 00:19:18.009
tells you about his

602
00:19:18.010 --> 00:19:19.059
first photograph.

603
00:19:19.060 --> 00:19:20.229
Do you want to tell that story or

604
00:19:20.230 --> 00:19:21.429
should I tell it?

605
00:19:21.430 --> 00:19:23.329
Yeah. You want me to tell it?

606
00:19:23.330 --> 00:19:24.330
Yes.

607
00:19:26.230 --> 00:19:27.709
Let's see if you're try to talk your

608
00:19:27.710 --> 00:19:29.049
camera talk now.

609
00:19:29.050 --> 00:19:30.050
So I.

610
00:19:31.130 --> 00:19:32.130
This.

611
00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:37.549
This is

612
00:19:37.550 --> 00:19:38.549
excuse me, sir.

613
00:19:38.550 --> 00:19:40.009
Eve told me this and

614
00:19:41.330 --> 00:19:43.219
she said we were driving down to

615
00:19:43.220 --> 00:19:44.869
have dinner last Barens in the

616
00:19:44.870 --> 00:19:46.859
Plaza. She recalled, she said,

617
00:19:46.860 --> 00:19:48.859
but she and Eve Eve everywhere,

618
00:19:48.860 --> 00:19:50.149
even Ed Maché.

619
00:19:50.150 --> 00:19:52.339
Now, we used to get enchiladas,

620
00:19:52.340 --> 00:19:54.169
rancheros with sour cream, melted

621
00:19:54.170 --> 00:19:55.609
cheese, avocado.

622
00:19:55.610 --> 00:19:57.439
So I looked at this book and said,

623
00:19:58.730 --> 00:20:00.439
I'm terribly sorry, I have to start

624
00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:02.289
over. This society is the

625
00:20:02.290 --> 00:20:04.189
Twenty said Yes Lation book.

626
00:20:04.190 --> 00:20:06.439
This is right. This is after

627
00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:08.599
this. I'm so sorry, Edra Shay.

628
00:20:08.600 --> 00:20:09.889
I have to back up. I'm on the wrong

629
00:20:09.890 --> 00:20:11.539
page. Excuse me.

630
00:20:11.540 --> 00:20:13.069
Rewind. And we'll do this.

631
00:20:13.070 --> 00:20:14.929
OK. So Ed went to

632
00:20:14.930 --> 00:20:15.930
New York City

633
00:20:17.090 --> 00:20:18.049
while he was there.

634
00:20:18.050 --> 00:20:19.550
He went to see

635
00:20:21.380 --> 00:20:22.589
his Andy Warhol.

636
00:20:22.590 --> 00:20:24.439
We'd met here and he ran

637
00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:25.739
into Larry Rivers.

638
00:20:25.740 --> 00:20:27.109
And Larry Rivers took him to the

639
00:20:27.110 --> 00:20:29.719
five spot to hear Thelonious Monk

640
00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:31.189
and Andy Warhol invited him to

641
00:20:31.190 --> 00:20:33.109
lunch. And Russia showed him

642
00:20:33.110 --> 00:20:34.519
his first book of black and white

643
00:20:34.520 --> 00:20:36.529
photographs, 26 gasoline

644
00:20:36.530 --> 00:20:38.059
stations.

645
00:20:38.060 --> 00:20:39.259
There were standard stations,

646
00:20:39.260 --> 00:20:41.539
Texaco's and so forth, with no essay

647
00:20:41.540 --> 00:20:42.439
and no text.

648
00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:44.299
And there were a five by seven

649
00:20:44.300 --> 00:20:45.859
inch paperback.

650
00:20:45.860 --> 00:20:47.329
Warhol looked through the book with

651
00:20:47.330 --> 00:20:49.519
his deadpan, serious expression

652
00:20:49.520 --> 00:20:51.469
and said, Oh, I love

653
00:20:51.470 --> 00:20:52.850
that there are no people in them.

654
00:20:55.610 --> 00:20:57.469
Not long after Russia painted

655
00:20:57.470 --> 00:20:59.539
Standard Station, Amarillo, Texas,

656
00:20:59.540 --> 00:21:01.459
a long horizontal canvas nearly

657
00:21:01.460 --> 00:21:03.559
five feet tall, 10 feet long

658
00:21:03.560 --> 00:21:05.209
and flatly commercial shades of red,

659
00:21:05.210 --> 00:21:07.219
black and white, he said.

660
00:21:07.220 --> 00:21:08.689
I think they become more powerful

661
00:21:08.690 --> 00:21:10.339
without extraneous elements like

662
00:21:10.340 --> 00:21:12.019
people, cars or anything beyond the

663
00:21:12.020 --> 00:21:13.879
story. I wanted something that had

664
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:15.529
that industrial strength to it.

665
00:21:16.550 --> 00:21:17.959
I mentioned that Dennis and Brooke

666
00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:19.289
Hopper bought that painting.

667
00:21:20.300 --> 00:21:22.639
So Russia knew intuitively

668
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:24.079
that there was something unsettlingly

669
00:21:24.080 --> 00:21:25.969
special about his small book of gas

670
00:21:25.970 --> 00:21:27.079
station photographs.

671
00:21:27.080 --> 00:21:28.759
Even a Philip leader, the editor of

672
00:21:28.760 --> 00:21:30.469
Artforum, wrote that he found

673
00:21:30.470 --> 00:21:32.449
himself irritated and annoyed by

674
00:21:32.450 --> 00:21:33.450
it.

675
00:21:34.220 --> 00:21:36.139
Russia showed his showed it to his

676
00:21:36.140 --> 00:21:38.119
sometime girlfriend, Ethe Babitz,

677
00:21:38.120 --> 00:21:40.009
who went on to write a series of

678
00:21:40.010 --> 00:21:41.689
scandalously funny memoirs,

679
00:21:41.690 --> 00:21:43.999
beginning with Eve's Hollywood.

680
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:45.889
She said We were driving

681
00:21:45.890 --> 00:21:47.549
down to have dinner at La Esperanza

682
00:21:47.550 --> 00:21:49.939
in the plaza, she recalled.

683
00:21:49.940 --> 00:21:51.499
We used to look, we used to get

684
00:21:51.500 --> 00:21:53.209
enchiladas, rancheros with sour

685
00:21:53.210 --> 00:21:55.579
cream, melted cheese, avocado.

686
00:21:55.580 --> 00:21:57.559
So I looked at this book and I said,

687
00:21:57.560 --> 00:21:59.659
Why did you make this book?

688
00:21:59.660 --> 00:22:01.549
And he said somebody had

689
00:22:01.550 --> 00:22:02.550
to do it.

690
00:22:05.590 --> 00:22:06.739
And that's sort of a perfect

691
00:22:06.740 --> 00:22:08.189
Evershed line, I think.

692
00:22:10.340 --> 00:22:12.319
So Eve was involved with these

693
00:22:12.320 --> 00:22:14.209
with the very much involved with the

694
00:22:15.770 --> 00:22:16.169
art world.

695
00:22:16.170 --> 00:22:17.569
I talk about I write a lot of this

696
00:22:17.570 --> 00:22:18.889
book about Ferris Gallery, of

697
00:22:18.890 --> 00:22:20.719
course, which is not just Walter

698
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:21.979
Hobson, Edward Shea, but of course,

699
00:22:21.980 --> 00:22:23.089
all the other artists who've been

700
00:22:23.090 --> 00:22:24.859
mentioned, several of them of whom

701
00:22:24.860 --> 00:22:26.599
are here tonight.

702
00:22:26.600 --> 00:22:29.419
But I've also

703
00:22:29.420 --> 00:22:31.249
had at one point

704
00:22:31.250 --> 00:22:32.989
an interest in being a graphic

705
00:22:32.990 --> 00:22:35.429
artist, and

706
00:22:35.430 --> 00:22:36.709
they should know quite how to go

707
00:22:36.710 --> 00:22:38.089
about doing that.

708
00:22:38.090 --> 00:22:39.439
So we're gonna fast forward a little

709
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.719
bit to life on the Sunset

710
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:43.549
Strip, because if you

711
00:22:43.550 --> 00:22:45.049
notice my books called the L.A.

712
00:22:45.050 --> 00:22:46.909
Art Scene and the 1960s.

713
00:22:46.910 --> 00:22:48.439
So it's partly about the art scene

714
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:50.359
and partly about the 1960s,

715
00:22:50.360 --> 00:22:52.129
about the Sunset Strip of the music

716
00:22:52.130 --> 00:22:53.389
scene there.

717
00:22:53.390 --> 00:22:54.709
And.

718
00:22:54.710 --> 00:22:56.569
And would you like to

719
00:22:56.570 --> 00:22:57.769
tell us the story about.

720
00:22:57.770 --> 00:22:58.849
Well, first of all, I think you

721
00:22:58.850 --> 00:23:00.889
should show

722
00:23:00.890 --> 00:23:02.890
us this picture on.

723
00:23:04.910 --> 00:23:06.489
Well, there's another one, actually,

724
00:23:06.490 --> 00:23:07.609
cause we're going to the Sunset

725
00:23:07.610 --> 00:23:08.719
Strip.

726
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:10.789
Let's go now to

727
00:23:10.790 --> 00:23:11.509
the picture.

728
00:23:11.510 --> 00:23:13.219
Another picture, because it pertains

729
00:23:13.220 --> 00:23:14.889
to the Sunset Strip.

730
00:23:14.890 --> 00:23:16.159
The Sunset Strip picture would

731
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:18.769
probably be better served if we did

732
00:23:18.770 --> 00:23:20.869
picture her

733
00:23:20.870 --> 00:23:22.879
seven of Mason Williams

734
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:24.739
and Ed Bouchet in front

735
00:23:24.740 --> 00:23:27.109
of Ed's house in Oklahoma City

736
00:23:27.110 --> 00:23:29.149
because, you know,

737
00:23:29.150 --> 00:23:31.489
it was actually Mason Williams who

738
00:23:31.490 --> 00:23:32.749
drove out to L.A.

739
00:23:32.750 --> 00:23:34.929
from Oklahoma City with Ed Russia.

740
00:23:34.930 --> 00:23:37.069
Yeah. And they were remain lifelong

741
00:23:37.070 --> 00:23:39.199
friends. And but talking

742
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.329
about music and the Sunset Strip,

743
00:23:41.330 --> 00:23:42.739
I think it's time for you to bring

744
00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:44.659
out your prop out of your bag

745
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:48.049
where they show you the record album

746
00:23:48.050 --> 00:23:50.639
cover that Eve designed.

747
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:52.249
It was the first, I think was your

748
00:23:52.250 --> 00:23:54.589
first commission.

749
00:23:54.590 --> 00:23:55.969
She did the cover for Buffalo

750
00:23:55.970 --> 00:23:58.399
Springfield, second record.

751
00:23:58.400 --> 00:23:59.929
And of course, she knew all the

752
00:23:59.930 --> 00:24:01.579
members of Buffalo Springfield

753
00:24:02.690 --> 00:24:03.690
and she knew

754
00:24:04.910 --> 00:24:06.519
she wasn't Billy. I said I was just

755
00:24:06.520 --> 00:24:07.520
a groupie.

756
00:24:09.950 --> 00:24:11.719
She knew Ahmet Ertegun, who she knew

757
00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:13.429
his brother and she knew everybody.

758
00:24:13.430 --> 00:24:15.139
And part of that is that.

759
00:24:15.140 --> 00:24:16.249
Well, we'll get to the next part of

760
00:24:16.250 --> 00:24:17.449
that story in a minute.

761
00:24:17.450 --> 00:24:19.279
Now, just to just to

762
00:24:19.280 --> 00:24:21.199
you tell the audience to tell our

763
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:23.179
friends how this came about.

764
00:24:23.180 --> 00:24:24.859
Tell us about how you met Stephen

765
00:24:24.860 --> 00:24:25.860
Stills.

766
00:24:26.810 --> 00:24:28.729
It's going to take about it's

767
00:24:28.730 --> 00:24:29.779
it's long.

768
00:24:29.780 --> 00:24:31.609
Well, we have to have

769
00:24:31.610 --> 00:24:32.329
a little time.

770
00:24:32.330 --> 00:24:33.619
OK.

771
00:24:33.620 --> 00:24:34.620
I met him.

772
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:38.059
I think I met him on the Sunset

773
00:24:38.060 --> 00:24:40.669
Strip at the Fritzie Dobbs.

774
00:24:40.670 --> 00:24:42.769
And that was like

775
00:24:42.770 --> 00:24:44.869
this club was opened about

776
00:24:44.870 --> 00:24:46.040
four seconds.

777
00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:50.239
But it was like it was it was

778
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:51.829
memorable because they had Ray

779
00:24:51.830 --> 00:24:53.599
Charles record there.

780
00:24:53.600 --> 00:24:55.639
Let's go get stoned

781
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:57.569
that everybody played nonstop.

782
00:24:58.610 --> 00:25:00.589
And I also met Van Dike

783
00:25:00.590 --> 00:25:02.209
Parks there.

784
00:25:02.210 --> 00:25:03.210
And

785
00:25:04.760 --> 00:25:06.709
the I, I was trying

786
00:25:06.710 --> 00:25:08.479
to be a groupie, but I was not very

787
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:09.499
good at it.

788
00:25:09.500 --> 00:25:10.940
My sister was much better.

789
00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:14.659
I'll pause here to say that her

790
00:25:14.660 --> 00:25:16.819
sister had a very famous clothing

791
00:25:16.820 --> 00:25:18.499
store on the Sunset Strip called

792
00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:19.989
Morand D.

793
00:25:19.990 --> 00:25:21.679
Amarant is here tonight.

794
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.539
And and we'll get to that

795
00:25:23.540 --> 00:25:24.679
story in a moment.

796
00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:26.419
But that was the store where all the

797
00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:28.189
rock musicians bought their clothes.

798
00:25:28.190 --> 00:25:30.589
That's right. So, Jim Morrison,

799
00:25:30.590 --> 00:25:31.639
everybody.

800
00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:33.559
Well, this wouldn't I.

801
00:25:33.560 --> 00:25:35.359
I went down to here.

802
00:25:35.360 --> 00:25:36.709
I, I was in love with Paul

803
00:25:36.710 --> 00:25:38.179
Butterfield. He was like the one I

804
00:25:38.180 --> 00:25:40.189
was really after.

805
00:25:40.190 --> 00:25:42.169
So I would go in the anywhere

806
00:25:42.170 --> 00:25:44.239
he was he would go like

807
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.399
the whiskey.

808
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:47.149
That the weird clubs all over.

809
00:25:47.150 --> 00:25:49.369
And finally he was out in Redondo

810
00:25:49.370 --> 00:25:51.229
Beach. So I took I actually

811
00:25:51.230 --> 00:25:53.539
drove my car to Redondo

812
00:25:53.540 --> 00:25:55.359
Beach. I was the worst driver of

813
00:25:55.360 --> 00:25:57.439
the world. But it took me

814
00:25:57.440 --> 00:25:58.879
way too long.

815
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:00.229
But I finally got there.

816
00:26:01.310 --> 00:26:03.199
And the

817
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:04.969
only other fan of Paul Butterfield

818
00:26:04.970 --> 00:26:06.439
was Stephen Stills.

819
00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:08.329
He was in love with them, too.

820
00:26:08.330 --> 00:26:10.489
So he was like and he said,

821
00:26:10.490 --> 00:26:12.489
you know, Neil doesn't like

822
00:26:12.490 --> 00:26:13.519
him. I don't know what's the matter

823
00:26:13.520 --> 00:26:14.309
with it.

824
00:26:14.310 --> 00:26:16.140
And so I said, well, OK.

825
00:26:17.270 --> 00:26:19.079
But I want to sit sit here in your

826
00:26:19.080 --> 00:26:19.939
room.

827
00:26:19.940 --> 00:26:21.979
I said, well, he's a symbol.

828
00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:24.589
Would you drive me home, basically?

829
00:26:24.590 --> 00:26:26.269
And I said, yes, if you'd let me do

830
00:26:26.270 --> 00:26:27.270
your album cover.

831
00:26:31.460 --> 00:26:33.859
So, I mean, it was such a far drive

832
00:26:33.860 --> 00:26:35.359
that, you know, I had to get

833
00:26:35.360 --> 00:26:36.360
something out of it.

834
00:26:38.820 --> 00:26:40.399
So that was it.

835
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:41.779
That was how that business

836
00:26:41.780 --> 00:26:43.999
transaction took place.

837
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:45.259
Things were easier in L.A.

838
00:26:45.260 --> 00:26:46.260
in the 60s.

839
00:26:48.980 --> 00:26:50.329
Well, then. But then.

840
00:26:50.330 --> 00:26:51.980
So this album cover arrives.

841
00:26:53.330 --> 00:26:54.829
What does ometer Tolkien's brother's

842
00:26:54.830 --> 00:26:56.769
name necessarily Nesse Ways.

843
00:26:56.770 --> 00:26:58.429
That's why I Erdogan's brother's

844
00:26:58.430 --> 00:27:00.769
desk. He gets this thing

845
00:27:00.770 --> 00:27:02.239
and he looks at it. Anything.

846
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:03.329
What is this?

847
00:27:03.330 --> 00:27:05.209
So he calls you up and you have to

848
00:27:05.210 --> 00:27:05.799
explain it.

849
00:27:05.800 --> 00:27:07.999
I said it's just Cornilles.

850
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.459
Oh, he said I have trouble.

851
00:27:10.460 --> 00:27:10.999
Yes.

852
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:13.099
I said, well,

853
00:27:13.100 --> 00:27:14.929
you'd love to do it.

854
00:27:14.930 --> 00:27:16.699
So I said, well, you have to go and

855
00:27:16.700 --> 00:27:18.259
get these flowers.

856
00:27:18.260 --> 00:27:20.149
And there's a store in New York

857
00:27:20.150 --> 00:27:21.559
where Joseph Cornell gets these

858
00:27:21.560 --> 00:27:22.729
flowers.

859
00:27:22.730 --> 00:27:24.049
I knew where it was.

860
00:27:24.050 --> 00:27:25.559
I'm 50 33.

861
00:27:25.560 --> 00:27:27.379
And he said they have Joseph

862
00:27:27.380 --> 00:27:28.939
Cornell flowers there.

863
00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:31.279
I said, yes. So they also use that

864
00:27:31.280 --> 00:27:33.229
to use the Bill

865
00:27:33.230 --> 00:27:35.119
of Rights to write Buffalo

866
00:27:35.120 --> 00:27:36.120
Springfield.

867
00:27:37.280 --> 00:27:39.049
So that was my art direction.

868
00:27:39.050 --> 00:27:39.969
You did what for?

869
00:27:39.970 --> 00:27:40.909
Don't tell me again.

870
00:27:40.910 --> 00:27:42.589
You'll write the Bill of Rights as

871
00:27:42.590 --> 00:27:44.689
the law is the type for your Buffalo

872
00:27:44.690 --> 00:27:46.359
Springfield album.

873
00:27:46.360 --> 00:27:47.360
All right.

874
00:27:48.140 --> 00:27:50.399
So this is the Bill of Rights?

875
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:53.109
Oh, I think I have an.

876
00:27:56.570 --> 00:27:57.739
Well, are perfect.

877
00:27:57.740 --> 00:27:59.959
You have to tell us everything.

878
00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:01.219
Well, the reason you knew about

879
00:28:01.220 --> 00:28:03.079
Joseph Cornell tell us this, because

880
00:28:03.080 --> 00:28:05.059
that goes back to Walter OB's.

881
00:28:05.060 --> 00:28:06.979
I know Walter just made

882
00:28:06.980 --> 00:28:09.139
my life so

883
00:28:09.140 --> 00:28:10.140
inspired.

884
00:28:11.260 --> 00:28:13.339
He did. He told me to go see first

885
00:28:13.340 --> 00:28:15.379
of all, Walter had about 12.

886
00:28:15.380 --> 00:28:17.239
Joseph Cornell's in

887
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:18.199
his house.

888
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:20.269
Huge words.

889
00:28:20.270 --> 00:28:22.369
But before that, he made me go

890
00:28:22.370 --> 00:28:24.229
when I was in New York, he said, go

891
00:28:24.230 --> 00:28:26.359
to this. Gary wrote it down.

892
00:28:26.360 --> 00:28:28.189
So I went with my girlfriend, were

893
00:28:28.190 --> 00:28:29.190
on acid,

894
00:28:32.810 --> 00:28:34.789
and we went to this.

895
00:28:34.790 --> 00:28:36.409
I don't know how we found the scary,

896
00:28:36.410 --> 00:28:38.599
but we did. It was it was horrible.

897
00:28:38.600 --> 00:28:40.909
I mean, we had to take the elevator

898
00:28:40.910 --> 00:28:42.769
and it was just like.

899
00:28:42.770 --> 00:28:44.779
And then, like, suddenly

900
00:28:44.780 --> 00:28:46.159
everything was, like, insanely

901
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:47.160
beautiful.

902
00:28:49.430 --> 00:28:51.349
This was all these Joseph Cornell

903
00:28:51.350 --> 00:28:52.299
collages.

904
00:28:52.300 --> 00:28:54.349
And I thought, oh, this

905
00:28:54.350 --> 00:28:55.669
is just unbelievable.

906
00:28:55.670 --> 00:28:57.529
So it's like changed my

907
00:28:57.530 --> 00:28:59.389
life so that I'll be

908
00:28:59.390 --> 00:29:00.650
an artist from now on.

909
00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:03.739
But then that was about 10

910
00:29:03.740 --> 00:29:04.740
years.

911
00:29:06.020 --> 00:29:07.839
And then when you do

912
00:29:07.840 --> 00:29:09.749
that, then you actually became

913
00:29:09.750 --> 00:29:10.859
a writer.

914
00:29:10.860 --> 00:29:12.629
I know I couldn't get any more money

915
00:29:12.630 --> 00:29:13.720
out of the art cake.

916
00:29:15.810 --> 00:29:17.909
It was I felt very

917
00:29:17.910 --> 00:29:19.739
bitter. But

918
00:29:19.740 --> 00:29:20.789
I became a writer.

919
00:29:20.790 --> 00:29:22.579
I felt like, oh, I have to use

920
00:29:22.580 --> 00:29:23.969
something.

921
00:29:23.970 --> 00:29:26.109
So I became a writer and

922
00:29:26.110 --> 00:29:29.099
Pete, you faster and more money.

923
00:29:29.100 --> 00:29:30.719
And they didn't, like, take all your

924
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:32.939
ideas. It's still them.

925
00:29:32.940 --> 00:29:34.379
So it was much better.

926
00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:35.459
It was the good old days.

927
00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:36.460
Yes.

928
00:29:38.310 --> 00:29:40.109
And it's still like, no, I guess the

929
00:29:40.110 --> 00:29:41.639
Internet has wrecked everything.

930
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:43.229
It's wrecked everything on certain

931
00:29:43.230 --> 00:29:45.119
levels. But but they.

932
00:29:45.120 --> 00:29:47.069
But getting back to

933
00:29:47.070 --> 00:29:49.139
Stephen Stills and Miranda

934
00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:50.579
and back to the Sunset Strip now,

935
00:29:50.580 --> 00:29:52.529
you and Randy used to go

936
00:29:52.530 --> 00:29:54.089
get dressed up and go out on the

937
00:29:54.090 --> 00:29:55.739
Sunset Strip with everybody.

938
00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:56.789
All the all the kids.

939
00:29:56.790 --> 00:29:58.439
Right. All the young people in L.A.

940
00:29:58.440 --> 00:29:59.969
walking around the clubs.

941
00:29:59.970 --> 00:30:01.169
Well, are we?

942
00:30:01.170 --> 00:30:03.239
I mean, my sister was like a sort

943
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:04.679
of a role model.

944
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:05.680
Wouldn't you say?

945
00:30:07.260 --> 00:30:09.419
I mean, the Sunset Strip.

946
00:30:09.420 --> 00:30:11.369
There was a one time you couldn't

947
00:30:11.370 --> 00:30:12.689
move on it.

948
00:30:12.690 --> 00:30:14.879
And Bob Dylan's record was like

949
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:16.889
blasted from one

950
00:30:16.890 --> 00:30:18.659
edge to the other.

951
00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:20.219
So that was sort of a great time,

952
00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:21.449
like a Rolling Stone.

953
00:30:23.110 --> 00:30:26.199
Everything just sort of coalesced.

954
00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:28.599
Rolling Stone magazine came out.

955
00:30:28.600 --> 00:30:30.219
The Rolling Stones were out.

956
00:30:30.220 --> 00:30:31.329
That song was out.

957
00:30:31.330 --> 00:30:32.330
It was just great.

958
00:30:33.610 --> 00:30:34.610
You couldn't miss it.

959
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:37.269
So did you.

960
00:30:37.270 --> 00:30:39.159
I can't root it so good, you tell us

961
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:41.169
a little bit about Jim

962
00:30:41.170 --> 00:30:43.809
Morrison, Miranda and

963
00:30:43.810 --> 00:30:44.810
you.

964
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:46.660
This is about the art world.

965
00:30:48.520 --> 00:30:49.949
It's our conversation.

966
00:30:49.950 --> 00:30:51.879
Got to keep it moving.

967
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:52.880
You got to keep it.

968
00:30:54.370 --> 00:30:55.149
Time's wasting.

969
00:30:55.150 --> 00:30:55.959
People want to know.

970
00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:57.759
They want to know more about us.

971
00:30:57.760 --> 00:30:59.799
Okay. Well, it was Jim Morrison

972
00:30:59.800 --> 00:31:01.899
was another one of my side

973
00:31:01.900 --> 00:31:02.900
gigs.

974
00:31:07.040 --> 00:31:08.929
He you know, he was in love with

975
00:31:08.930 --> 00:31:10.819
Pamela, so it was really just, you

976
00:31:10.820 --> 00:31:11.820
know, and

977
00:31:12.970 --> 00:31:14.599
I think, you know, when I heard that

978
00:31:14.600 --> 00:31:16.759
he just like snorted pet

979
00:31:16.760 --> 00:31:18.589
heroin in that bar, that was

980
00:31:18.590 --> 00:31:20.449
like what I could expect.

981
00:31:20.450 --> 00:31:22.219
That's how I really imagined with

982
00:31:22.220 --> 00:31:23.220
dying.

983
00:31:24.650 --> 00:31:26.479
So it was but my

984
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:28.969
sister made us close it.

985
00:31:28.970 --> 00:31:30.889
She was more his age.

986
00:31:30.890 --> 00:31:32.660
I always felt too old for him.

987
00:31:34.520 --> 00:31:36.479
But you had the best observation

988
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:38.009
about him, which was that, you know,

989
00:31:38.010 --> 00:31:40.289
he had been a fat kid.

990
00:31:40.290 --> 00:31:41.849
Yes, that was true.

991
00:31:41.850 --> 00:31:43.889
I couldn't believe it.

992
00:31:43.890 --> 00:31:45.359
He'd been a fat kid who discovered

993
00:31:45.360 --> 00:31:46.469
drugs and got skinny.

994
00:31:46.470 --> 00:31:47.910
And that was the key to everything

995
00:31:49.320 --> 00:31:50.879
that was to that, you know, that he

996
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:52.429
was. And he came into his.

997
00:31:52.430 --> 00:31:53.609
He'd love pancakes.

998
00:31:53.610 --> 00:31:54.610
So it was

999
00:31:55.550 --> 00:31:56.609
he loved pancakes.

1000
00:31:59.130 --> 00:32:00.869
I mean, I just don't like.

1001
00:32:00.870 --> 00:32:01.870
He was like.

1002
00:32:02.650 --> 00:32:05.269
You know, I guess the speed

1003
00:32:05.270 --> 00:32:06.809
got him skinny enough to go on the

1004
00:32:06.810 --> 00:32:07.810
stage.

1005
00:32:09.210 --> 00:32:11.099
But that was what everybody was like

1006
00:32:11.100 --> 00:32:12.719
then, and that's why so many people

1007
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:14.159
were dropping dead of all that

1008
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:15.160
mixture of drugs.

1009
00:32:16.600 --> 00:32:17.619
Yes.

1010
00:32:17.620 --> 00:32:19.449
The downside of being

1011
00:32:19.450 --> 00:32:22.119
too vague, too fat and too rich.

1012
00:32:22.120 --> 00:32:23.120
Yes,

1013
00:32:24.780 --> 00:32:26.589
it has a downside.

1014
00:32:28.840 --> 00:32:31.269
So I was

1015
00:32:31.270 --> 00:32:33.489
one thing I do like about

1016
00:32:33.490 --> 00:32:35.379
the inspiration I have about

1017
00:32:35.380 --> 00:32:37.479
Eve. It's not it's not it's not all

1018
00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:38.859
just drugs and sex and rock and

1019
00:32:38.860 --> 00:32:40.089
roll. And I'm going to read another

1020
00:32:40.090 --> 00:32:42.249
section from my book a little bit.

1021
00:32:42.250 --> 00:32:43.449
Did you bring your Hollywood thing

1022
00:32:43.450 --> 00:32:44.999
you were going to read?

1023
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:46.119
No.

1024
00:32:46.120 --> 00:32:47.019
OK.

1025
00:32:47.020 --> 00:32:48.729
All right. You know, I'm going to

1026
00:32:48.730 --> 00:32:50.289
bring that shirt, read something

1027
00:32:50.290 --> 00:32:52.029
that I think it's my writing.

1028
00:32:52.030 --> 00:32:54.009
But it was actually kind of inspired

1029
00:32:54.010 --> 00:32:55.449
by a few of the people in this book.

1030
00:32:55.450 --> 00:32:57.969
And I think it really is

1031
00:32:57.970 --> 00:32:59.649
about a fundamental difference.

1032
00:32:59.650 --> 00:33:01.849
It's not about better or worse.

1033
00:33:01.850 --> 00:33:02.850
But I think it's about

1034
00:33:05.500 --> 00:33:07.209
you know, I know I'm not making any

1035
00:33:07.210 --> 00:33:08.019
point that L.A.

1036
00:33:08.020 --> 00:33:09.849
is like that is a

1037
00:33:09.850 --> 00:33:11.169
better art scene or anything like

1038
00:33:11.170 --> 00:33:12.219
that. I think there's a fundamental

1039
00:33:12.220 --> 00:33:14.049
difference from New York and L.A.

1040
00:33:14.050 --> 00:33:15.609
And here's and here's the difference

1041
00:33:15.610 --> 00:33:17.109
in a nutshell.

1042
00:33:17.110 --> 00:33:19.059
As you know from the art

1043
00:33:19.060 --> 00:33:20.060
that the artists were

1044
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:22.959
after the art, after the openings at

1045
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:24.609
Ferris Gallery, the artists would

1046
00:33:24.610 --> 00:33:26.499
often retire to Barney's Beanery

1047
00:33:26.500 --> 00:33:28.629
on Holloway, which is still there.

1048
00:33:28.630 --> 00:33:30.999
And and and everybody

1049
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:32.019
apparently went there.

1050
00:33:32.020 --> 00:33:33.909
I mean, the people I interviewed

1051
00:33:33.910 --> 00:33:35.469
would say that Elizabeth Taylor

1052
00:33:35.470 --> 00:33:37.449
would come in and

1053
00:33:37.450 --> 00:33:39.099
someone would maybe grudgingly give

1054
00:33:39.100 --> 00:33:40.139
up a seat for her.

1055
00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:41.019
Maybe.

1056
00:33:41.020 --> 00:33:43.029
I think Joe Good sat next

1057
00:33:43.030 --> 00:33:44.889
to and sat next to

1058
00:33:44.890 --> 00:33:47.759
Elizabeth Taylor once and

1059
00:33:47.760 --> 00:33:49.659
and so out. But so but what

1060
00:33:49.660 --> 00:33:51.159
they at Barney's, they weren't

1061
00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:52.539
really talking about art.

1062
00:33:52.540 --> 00:33:53.859
I mean, the artists I've talked to,

1063
00:33:53.860 --> 00:33:55.809
so they were talking about mostly

1064
00:33:55.810 --> 00:33:57.789
about girls and

1065
00:33:57.790 --> 00:33:59.439
maybe about the art role or about

1066
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.359
art life in L.A., but not really

1067
00:34:01.360 --> 00:34:02.979
so much about the art itself.

1068
00:34:02.980 --> 00:34:04.899
So I write art

1069
00:34:04.900 --> 00:34:06.069
may not have been the primary

1070
00:34:06.070 --> 00:34:07.419
discourse at Barney's, but the

1071
00:34:07.420 --> 00:34:09.218
camaraderie helped the artists move

1072
00:34:09.219 --> 00:34:11.019
decisively away from what Craig

1073
00:34:11.020 --> 00:34:13.238
Kaufman called messy 50s,

1074
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:15.099
painting young and

1075
00:34:15.100 --> 00:34:16.899
reckless. Having been to New York in

1076
00:34:16.900 --> 00:34:19.178
Europe, these artists decided

1077
00:34:19.179 --> 00:34:20.979
collectively and individually to

1078
00:34:20.980 --> 00:34:22.809
break away from prevailing views

1079
00:34:22.810 --> 00:34:25.388
and practices of mainstream New York

1080
00:34:25.389 --> 00:34:27.428
precisely, excuse it, mainstream

1081
00:34:27.429 --> 00:34:29.169
art and criticism.

1082
00:34:29.170 --> 00:34:31.299
They chose to live in Los Angeles

1083
00:34:31.300 --> 00:34:33.638
instead of New York, precisely

1084
00:34:33.639 --> 00:34:34.988
because there was a dearth of

1085
00:34:34.989 --> 00:34:36.698
critical discourse and gallery

1086
00:34:36.699 --> 00:34:38.589
infrastructure as

1087
00:34:38.590 --> 00:34:39.999
a group. They reveled in being

1088
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:41.979
pugnacious and anti intellectual,

1089
00:34:43.030 --> 00:34:44.769
unlike the abstract expressionist

1090
00:34:44.770 --> 00:34:46.839
painters who had been their heroes.

1091
00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:48.638
They took a stand for optimism,

1092
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:50.799
humor and pleasure,

1093
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:52.119
though most of them came from quite

1094
00:34:52.120 --> 00:34:54.158
modest, modest backgrounds.

1095
00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:56.218
They refused to adopt the sorrowful,

1096
00:34:56.219 --> 00:34:58.059
inspired introspection and angst

1097
00:34:58.060 --> 00:35:00.339
of the New York school artists,

1098
00:35:00.340 --> 00:35:01.599
as Erwin said, of his own

1099
00:35:01.600 --> 00:35:02.679
upbringing.

1100
00:35:02.680 --> 00:35:04.059
We didn't have nothing to do with

1101
00:35:04.060 --> 00:35:04.959
all of that.

1102
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.749
No dark side, none of that struggle.

1103
00:35:07.750 --> 00:35:09.729
Everything was just a flow.

1104
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:12.910
And I think that that really

1105
00:35:13.930 --> 00:35:16.359
summarizes a lot of what

1106
00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:17.739
was present in L.A.

1107
00:35:17.740 --> 00:35:19.599
in the 60s.

1108
00:35:19.600 --> 00:35:21.429
A kind of ease and a kind of

1109
00:35:21.430 --> 00:35:23.589
sense of wanting to be cool.

1110
00:35:23.590 --> 00:35:24.799
Of of.

1111
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:26.050
Not of it being.

1112
00:35:28.660 --> 00:35:30.669
And and and also,

1113
00:35:30.670 --> 00:35:33.099
as I've just said, when

1114
00:35:33.100 --> 00:35:35.229
people keep asking me about this,

1115
00:35:35.230 --> 00:35:36.819
what this book kind of means to me

1116
00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:38.739
and really to me, this

1117
00:35:38.740 --> 00:35:40.599
is the foundation of what we have

1118
00:35:40.600 --> 00:35:41.559
today.

1119
00:35:41.560 --> 00:35:43.420
I partly wrote this book because,

1120
00:35:44.980 --> 00:35:45.980
you know.

1121
00:35:47.100 --> 00:35:48.909
Our art world now, our contemporary

1122
00:35:48.910 --> 00:35:50.139
art world is huge.

1123
00:35:50.140 --> 00:35:51.609
As you said, she said, I didn't know

1124
00:35:51.610 --> 00:35:53.919
it had gotten so large

1125
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:55.989
that we had many museums

1126
00:35:55.990 --> 00:35:57.699
of contemporary art with hundreds of

1127
00:35:57.700 --> 00:35:59.409
art galleries. And anyone who's new

1128
00:35:59.410 --> 00:36:01.239
to the city may not really

1129
00:36:01.240 --> 00:36:03.259
know how small and

1130
00:36:03.260 --> 00:36:06.179
at Los Angeles was in the 1960s.

1131
00:36:06.180 --> 00:36:07.630
But that is the reason

1132
00:36:08.890 --> 00:36:10.269
we have what we have today is

1133
00:36:10.270 --> 00:36:12.279
because these artists chose

1134
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:13.569
to stay here.

1135
00:36:13.570 --> 00:36:14.679
They went to New York and they

1136
00:36:14.680 --> 00:36:16.059
looked around and many of them are

1137
00:36:16.060 --> 00:36:18.069
here today and they and they write

1138
00:36:18.070 --> 00:36:20.049
tonight. And they chose to to

1139
00:36:20.050 --> 00:36:20.949
stay in L.A.

1140
00:36:20.950 --> 00:36:22.509
and make a stand.

1141
00:36:22.510 --> 00:36:23.949
And they are the foundation from

1142
00:36:23.950 --> 00:36:26.329
which we. The scene has grown.

1143
00:36:26.330 --> 00:36:28.509
So I that's really was my

1144
00:36:28.510 --> 00:36:29.559
my point in this.

1145
00:36:29.560 --> 00:36:31.419
And and also, I just I just

1146
00:36:31.420 --> 00:36:32.799
wanted to mention the pleasure

1147
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:34.929
factor, because one one

1148
00:36:34.930 --> 00:36:36.639
person who really has been all for

1149
00:36:36.640 --> 00:36:38.259
the pleasure factor in L.A.

1150
00:36:38.260 --> 00:36:39.260
is my friend Eve,

1151
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:42.999
and she brought a T-shirt to show us

1152
00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:44.000
why

1153
00:36:45.250 --> 00:36:47.379
her I love I fucking love

1154
00:36:47.380 --> 00:36:48.380
L.A.. Right.

1155
00:36:52.420 --> 00:36:53.559
You're going to have to reissue

1156
00:36:53.560 --> 00:36:54.489
that.

1157
00:36:54.490 --> 00:36:57.299
I know. I just think it's so great.

1158
00:36:57.300 --> 00:36:59.259
I mean, I, I looked at it for

1159
00:36:59.260 --> 00:37:00.279
like 45 minutes.

1160
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:01.479
I was trying to figure out what it

1161
00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:02.480
said.

1162
00:37:06.470 --> 00:37:07.779
But don't you have another one says

1163
00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:09.339
I fucking hate San Francisco.

1164
00:37:09.340 --> 00:37:11.259
No, I was going to put a grumpy

1165
00:37:11.260 --> 00:37:13.119
face San Francisco in the back,

1166
00:37:15.420 --> 00:37:16.749
because they're always they always

1167
00:37:16.750 --> 00:37:18.039
hate the smog.

1168
00:37:18.040 --> 00:37:20.449
They have all these reasons for L.A.

1169
00:37:20.450 --> 00:37:22.449
tell until

1170
00:37:22.450 --> 00:37:23.799
we never really talked about how you

1171
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:24.999
became a writer or how you

1172
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:26.949
transferred your interest in art

1173
00:37:26.950 --> 00:37:27.950
into writing.

1174
00:37:30.310 --> 00:37:32.949
Well, I was always a writer.

1175
00:37:32.950 --> 00:37:34.299
My father was a writer.

1176
00:37:34.300 --> 00:37:35.619
My grandmother was a writer.

1177
00:37:35.620 --> 00:37:36.620
It's a gene.

1178
00:37:38.710 --> 00:37:40.959
My grandfather got wrote

1179
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:41.919
The Jewish Boys.

1180
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:43.279
He wrote a column.

1181
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:44.589
Everyone thought he was brilliantly

1182
00:37:44.590 --> 00:37:47.379
funny, wrote Yiddish for these.

1183
00:37:47.380 --> 00:37:49.569
My father had the same gene

1184
00:37:49.570 --> 00:37:51.089
and I have it, too.

1185
00:37:51.090 --> 00:37:53.449
So I just hope I don't die of 72

1186
00:37:53.450 --> 00:37:54.510
of a brain tumor

1187
00:37:57.160 --> 00:37:58.160
that

1188
00:37:59.540 --> 00:38:01.359
it's just I was lucky

1189
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:02.559
to have it.

1190
00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:04.299
You know it.

1191
00:38:04.300 --> 00:38:06.189
I enjoy writing when I feel

1192
00:38:06.190 --> 00:38:06.909
like doing it.

1193
00:38:06.910 --> 00:38:08.889
But right now, after my

1194
00:38:08.890 --> 00:38:11.579
accident, I don't feel like

1195
00:38:11.580 --> 00:38:12.669
you want to talk about your

1196
00:38:12.670 --> 00:38:13.779
accident. No.

1197
00:38:13.780 --> 00:38:15.669
OK. Thank you.

1198
00:38:15.670 --> 00:38:17.499
And and at

1199
00:38:17.500 --> 00:38:18.500
about your

1200
00:38:19.420 --> 00:38:20.229
club.

1201
00:38:20.230 --> 00:38:21.189
I know that you told me that

1202
00:38:21.190 --> 00:38:22.419
Collette was your it was somebody

1203
00:38:22.420 --> 00:38:23.889
who was very important to you.

1204
00:38:23.890 --> 00:38:24.890
Yes.

1205
00:38:26.140 --> 00:38:28.059
Well, I can't remember what

1206
00:38:28.060 --> 00:38:29.060
I said.

1207
00:38:29.720 --> 00:38:31.389
I'm sloughing off.

1208
00:38:32.390 --> 00:38:33.579
I didn't have any coffee.

1209
00:38:35.170 --> 00:38:36.519
Well, I think I think it might even

1210
00:38:36.520 --> 00:38:38.019
be a time to open it up a little bit

1211
00:38:38.020 --> 00:38:39.909
to questions, because I think

1212
00:38:39.910 --> 00:38:42.099
people might have some questions.

1213
00:38:42.100 --> 00:38:43.629
There's a woman right there.

1214
00:38:43.630 --> 00:38:45.129
You have microphones on either side

1215
00:38:45.130 --> 00:38:46.239
of the theater. I'm sorry.

1216
00:38:46.240 --> 00:38:47.679
Here's a bet. Here's your microphone

1217
00:38:47.680 --> 00:38:48.579
coming down to you.

1218
00:38:48.580 --> 00:38:49.769
Raise your hand and we'll bring the

1219
00:38:49.770 --> 00:38:50.770
mike to you.

1220
00:38:54.070 --> 00:38:55.379
Hillary, we used to know each other

1221
00:38:55.380 --> 00:38:57.209
in the 70s by a little

1222
00:38:57.210 --> 00:38:58.379
bit after this time.

1223
00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:00.179
But at that time you were close

1224
00:39:00.180 --> 00:39:01.469
friends with Paul Ricci.

1225
00:39:01.470 --> 00:39:02.559
Ed's younger brother.

1226
00:39:02.560 --> 00:39:04.949
So if you want to talk about that or

1227
00:39:04.950 --> 00:39:05.879
if you don't, what happened to him?

1228
00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:06.880
Since then,

1229
00:39:08.010 --> 00:39:09.509
Paul has written a brilliant book

1230
00:39:09.510 --> 00:39:10.589
about the art world.

1231
00:39:12.240 --> 00:39:13.529
Paul wrote a wonderful book about

1232
00:39:13.530 --> 00:39:15.319
the art world. Paul reshaped it at

1233
00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:16.320
younger brother.

1234
00:39:17.670 --> 00:39:18.960
So I think

1235
00:39:20.750 --> 00:39:22.439
it's also it's all everybody loves

1236
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:24.119
it. They can't believe how funny it

1237
00:39:24.120 --> 00:39:25.120
is.

1238
00:39:25.630 --> 00:39:26.969
And yeah, it's a great book,

1239
00:39:26.970 --> 00:39:28.109
actually, if you haven't read it.

1240
00:39:28.110 --> 00:39:29.219
And of course, none of us remember

1241
00:39:29.220 --> 00:39:32.009
the title of it was the title of it.

1242
00:39:32.010 --> 00:39:33.780
A full moon. I'm full.

1243
00:39:35.100 --> 00:39:36.100
Was it.

1244
00:39:37.210 --> 00:39:38.769
Paul Rishi's full moon, is that

1245
00:39:38.770 --> 00:39:41.419
Paul? Yeah, great.

1246
00:39:41.420 --> 00:39:42.939
Paul.

1247
00:39:42.940 --> 00:39:44.260
The other inspiration.

1248
00:39:45.370 --> 00:39:46.659
The other inspiration.

1249
00:39:49.810 --> 00:39:51.219
Yeah. I haven't even talked about

1250
00:39:51.220 --> 00:39:52.329
how much to eat.

1251
00:39:52.330 --> 00:39:53.979
Other people being Eve's muses.

1252
00:39:53.980 --> 00:39:55.599
And Eve was my muse.

1253
00:39:55.600 --> 00:39:57.519
And you you've been the muse to

1254
00:39:57.520 --> 00:39:58.989
a lot of artists.

1255
00:39:58.990 --> 00:40:01.339
I guess I can't help it.

1256
00:40:01.340 --> 00:40:02.340
It's a T-shirt.

1257
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:07.089
I said something backstage that I

1258
00:40:07.090 --> 00:40:09.009
should say here. I said it

1259
00:40:09.010 --> 00:40:10.729
actually to a reporter earlier side.

1260
00:40:10.730 --> 00:40:11.730
Forgot to.

1261
00:40:12.160 --> 00:40:13.959
The reason I know Eve is because

1262
00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:14.849
while I've known you for a long

1263
00:40:14.850 --> 00:40:16.689
time, but Joy Davidov, who's in the

1264
00:40:16.690 --> 00:40:18.129
audience tonight, who used to be the

1265
00:40:18.130 --> 00:40:19.569
editor of the L.A. Weekly and L.A.

1266
00:40:19.570 --> 00:40:20.829
Styles, was my editor

1267
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:23.859
and was a friend of EADS

1268
00:40:23.860 --> 00:40:24.909
and Joey.

1269
00:40:24.910 --> 00:40:26.649
And even I got together every week

1270
00:40:26.650 --> 00:40:28.299
for a year at Joey's house and they

1271
00:40:28.300 --> 00:40:29.769
helped me with a book group.

1272
00:40:29.770 --> 00:40:31.029
And that is the reason I was able to

1273
00:40:31.030 --> 00:40:32.529
finish my biography of Georgia

1274
00:40:32.530 --> 00:40:34.479
O'Keeffe, because I would read

1275
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:35.409
a chapter or whatever.

1276
00:40:35.410 --> 00:40:36.819
I was writing about my biography of

1277
00:40:36.820 --> 00:40:37.899
Georgia O'Keeffe, and I would read

1278
00:40:37.900 --> 00:40:39.759
pages to them and

1279
00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:41.019
Eve would look at me and roll her

1280
00:40:41.020 --> 00:40:42.849
hives and say, Not enough

1281
00:40:42.850 --> 00:40:43.900
blue sky.

1282
00:40:47.350 --> 00:40:49.449
So I would have to take

1283
00:40:49.450 --> 00:40:51.369
out all a lot of I remember I had

1284
00:40:51.370 --> 00:40:53.109
like a whole section of, like,

1285
00:40:53.110 --> 00:40:54.609
feminist theory in the middle of it.

1286
00:40:54.610 --> 00:40:55.610
They both just what?

1287
00:40:58.270 --> 00:41:00.459
And so that's

1288
00:41:00.460 --> 00:41:03.069
that even been

1289
00:41:03.070 --> 00:41:04.929
an inspiration for many writers,

1290
00:41:04.930 --> 00:41:06.310
including me. More questions.

1291
00:41:14.860 --> 00:41:16.989
Eve, in all of your books, you

1292
00:41:16.990 --> 00:41:18.829
have a protagonist that always

1293
00:41:18.830 --> 00:41:20.119
returns back to L.A.

1294
00:41:20.120 --> 00:41:21.289
links, you might leave, but she

1295
00:41:21.290 --> 00:41:22.279
always comes back.

1296
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:23.579
Yeah. Did you.

1297
00:41:23.580 --> 00:41:25.439
What is it?

1298
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:26.219
You.

1299
00:41:26.220 --> 00:41:27.220
Louder.

1300
00:41:27.620 --> 00:41:29.569
Did you ever spend an extended time

1301
00:41:29.570 --> 00:41:30.589
away from L.A.?

1302
00:41:30.590 --> 00:41:32.179
And then what made you return back?

1303
00:41:34.270 --> 00:41:36.199
I I

1304
00:41:36.200 --> 00:41:37.629
actually went to New York for a

1305
00:41:37.630 --> 00:41:39.369
whole year because I figured I had

1306
00:41:39.370 --> 00:41:41.190
to get APHC or something.

1307
00:41:43.510 --> 00:41:45.399
So, you know, I was going

1308
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:46.419
to get it in school.

1309
00:41:47.860 --> 00:41:48.860
Yes.

1310
00:41:49.340 --> 00:41:51.099
So, you know what?

1311
00:41:51.100 --> 00:41:52.100
In like 19.

1312
00:41:53.590 --> 00:41:54.489
Like, I don't know.

1313
00:41:54.490 --> 00:41:56.469
Sixty five went

1314
00:41:56.470 --> 00:41:58.389
to New York and

1315
00:41:58.390 --> 00:42:00.789
it was really bad,

1316
00:42:00.790 --> 00:42:02.409
but I suffered through it and

1317
00:42:02.410 --> 00:42:04.239
managed to live, so I was so

1318
00:42:04.240 --> 00:42:05.240
happy to come back.

1319
00:42:06.190 --> 00:42:08.139
And then the other place they went

1320
00:42:08.140 --> 00:42:09.879
was Rome, which was great.

1321
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:12.459
But it was also kind of bad.

1322
00:42:12.460 --> 00:42:13.549
People kept dying.

1323
00:42:13.550 --> 00:42:14.550
Oge.

1324
00:42:15.250 --> 00:42:17.289
So, you know,

1325
00:42:17.290 --> 00:42:18.519
L.A., people have.

1326
00:42:18.520 --> 00:42:20.409
It's much easier to live

1327
00:42:20.410 --> 00:42:21.669
here.

1328
00:42:21.670 --> 00:42:22.670
Like, whether.

1329
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:25.819
So that's my

1330
00:42:25.820 --> 00:42:26.820
theory.

1331
00:42:29.540 --> 00:42:31.040
So people go when they come back.

1332
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:33.649
That's right.

1333
00:42:33.650 --> 00:42:36.059
There'll be any other questions.

1334
00:42:36.060 --> 00:42:37.939
There is a question from the front

1335
00:42:37.940 --> 00:42:38.940
row.

1336
00:42:39.390 --> 00:42:40.269
Well.

1337
00:42:40.270 --> 00:42:41.369
There is one here.

1338
00:42:41.370 --> 00:42:42.749
Well, you couldn't.

1339
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:50.719
No one ever really

1340
00:42:50.720 --> 00:42:52.549
answers this,

1341
00:42:52.550 --> 00:42:53.550
honestly.

1342
00:42:54.350 --> 00:42:55.350
But.

1343
00:42:56.750 --> 00:42:58.909
What role

1344
00:42:58.910 --> 00:43:01.459
did drugs?

1345
00:43:01.460 --> 00:43:02.460
Play.

1346
00:43:04.430 --> 00:43:06.739
And why were they so wonderful

1347
00:43:06.740 --> 00:43:07.789
in the 60s?

1348
00:43:15.260 --> 00:43:17.119
Because you could drive anywhere in

1349
00:43:17.120 --> 00:43:18.120
20 minutes.

1350
00:43:23.160 --> 00:43:24.160
You it.

1351
00:43:33.620 --> 00:43:35.569
Louis, over

1352
00:43:35.570 --> 00:43:36.570
here on your left.

1353
00:43:37.970 --> 00:43:40.099
Can you tell us how you just

1354
00:43:40.100 --> 00:43:41.779
match at the Pasadena Art Museum

1355
00:43:41.780 --> 00:43:42.780
developed?

1356
00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:45.489
Nineteen sixty three times

1357
00:43:45.490 --> 00:43:47.349
at full speed,

1358
00:43:47.350 --> 00:43:49.659
I thought I was going to clean this,

1359
00:43:49.660 --> 00:43:51.459
clean them up because I thought,

1360
00:43:51.460 --> 00:43:52.439
well, he's French.

1361
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:53.440
What does he know?

1362
00:43:55.090 --> 00:43:57.139
But I've never knew what fools

1363
00:43:57.140 --> 00:43:59.319
me was because,

1364
00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:00.819
you know, I thought I was an

1365
00:44:00.820 --> 00:44:02.409
intellectual. That's why I actually

1366
00:44:02.410 --> 00:44:03.789
did this.

1367
00:44:03.790 --> 00:44:05.679
So, you know, I

1368
00:44:05.680 --> 00:44:07.119
thought I'll just the speed.

1369
00:44:07.120 --> 00:44:08.679
At least I could do something here.

1370
00:44:08.680 --> 00:44:09.680
That's.

1371
00:44:10.130 --> 00:44:12.259
Positive. But he beat it fools

1372
00:44:12.260 --> 00:44:13.909
me. It was really embarrassing.

1373
00:44:13.910 --> 00:44:15.469
What is false, mate?

1374
00:44:15.470 --> 00:44:17.299
It's like when you are you

1375
00:44:17.300 --> 00:44:19.459
open a game and

1376
00:44:19.460 --> 00:44:21.229
you think God just take their queen

1377
00:44:21.230 --> 00:44:22.639
or king and that'll be the end of

1378
00:44:22.640 --> 00:44:24.649
it. And they totally

1379
00:44:24.650 --> 00:44:26.629
take your king

1380
00:44:26.630 --> 00:44:28.969
instantly, which is fools me.

1381
00:44:28.970 --> 00:44:30.129
And they do that in a few more.

1382
00:44:30.130 --> 00:44:32.069
They kind of sneak you into

1383
00:44:32.070 --> 00:44:33.359
taking their thicky.

1384
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:34.489
You could take their king

1385
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:38.499
if that's.

1386
00:44:38.500 --> 00:44:40.520
And I did it three times.

1387
00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:44.580
But think how happy it made him.

1388
00:44:46.430 --> 00:44:47.459
I guess it did.

1389
00:44:47.460 --> 00:44:49.319
I don't know if it did.

1390
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:50.609
I think he probably thought I would

1391
00:44:50.610 --> 00:44:52.080
wise up eventually.

1392
00:44:56.910 --> 00:44:58.769
Do you remember what to do about the

1393
00:44:58.770 --> 00:45:00.219
shop? Show a show itself.

1394
00:45:01.990 --> 00:45:02.990
Yes.

1395
00:45:04.180 --> 00:45:06.009
You know, I thought that, you

1396
00:45:06.010 --> 00:45:08.109
know, it was I mean, I really prefer

1397
00:45:08.110 --> 00:45:09.110
Joseph Cornell.

1398
00:45:10.090 --> 00:45:11.979
So, I mean, I like big, luscious

1399
00:45:11.980 --> 00:45:13.869
things that this is like all sharp,

1400
00:45:13.870 --> 00:45:14.769
gaudy things.

1401
00:45:14.770 --> 00:45:17.279
But I, I, you know,

1402
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:19.779
it was it was

1403
00:45:19.780 --> 00:45:21.459
I notice the picture the when you

1404
00:45:21.460 --> 00:45:23.109
first entered that had those naked

1405
00:45:23.110 --> 00:45:24.169
people from the 20s.

1406
00:45:24.170 --> 00:45:25.209
And I thought that was kind of

1407
00:45:25.210 --> 00:45:26.210
interesting.

1408
00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:30.349
But really, I'm more of a

1409
00:45:30.350 --> 00:45:31.910
you know, just some Kernell person,

1410
00:45:33.410 --> 00:45:34.879
I know people love Bar Selders

1411
00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:35.989
Sharp.

1412
00:45:35.990 --> 00:45:37.999
But, you know, I mean, they

1413
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:39.889
see more into him than Zehr.

1414
00:45:39.890 --> 00:45:41.739
But I figure they must

1415
00:45:41.740 --> 00:45:43.449
know. But I just get up.

1416
00:45:45.560 --> 00:45:46.339
That's it.

1417
00:45:46.340 --> 00:45:47.749
Was he right? Was he fun to talk to?

1418
00:45:47.750 --> 00:45:48.829
Was he polite?

1419
00:45:48.830 --> 00:45:50.359
He was very polite.

1420
00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:52.239
He was wonderful to talk

1421
00:45:52.240 --> 00:45:53.929
to, is wonderful to everybody.

1422
00:45:53.930 --> 00:45:55.429
He was kind to people.

1423
00:45:55.430 --> 00:45:57.379
He adopted like these poor

1424
00:45:57.380 --> 00:45:59.299
children that like, you know, tree

1425
00:45:59.300 --> 00:46:00.089
needs children.

1426
00:46:00.090 --> 00:46:01.669
He adopted those people.

1427
00:46:01.670 --> 00:46:03.499
The Matisses, he

1428
00:46:03.500 --> 00:46:05.649
just made everybody feel a key.

1429
00:46:05.650 --> 00:46:07.489
His I read his biography.

1430
00:46:07.490 --> 00:46:08.490
It was great.

1431
00:46:09.710 --> 00:46:11.359
But, you know, I couldn't see it

1432
00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:13.099
because I was it was all too sharp

1433
00:46:13.100 --> 00:46:14.419
and pointed for me.

1434
00:46:14.420 --> 00:46:15.559
Did you know Dennis very well,

1435
00:46:15.560 --> 00:46:16.560
Dennis Hopper?

1436
00:46:17.330 --> 00:46:18.900
Yes. He was like part of the

1437
00:46:20.040 --> 00:46:22.069
the Barnet's crowd.

1438
00:46:22.070 --> 00:46:24.079
I'd love Barney's

1439
00:46:24.080 --> 00:46:26.119
was you would still be going on,

1440
00:46:26.120 --> 00:46:28.129
but you have to go to a AA

1441
00:46:28.130 --> 00:46:29.130
now instead.

1442
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:38.280
True enough.

1443
00:46:41.180 --> 00:46:42.529
Are there any other questions out

1444
00:46:42.530 --> 00:46:43.369
there?

1445
00:46:43.370 --> 00:46:44.419
Oh, there's one right there.

1446
00:46:54.060 --> 00:46:55.379
You look like you've managed to

1447
00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:56.849
pretty much have a good time, and I

1448
00:46:56.850 --> 00:46:58.049
don't know what the answer is going

1449
00:46:58.050 --> 00:46:59.909
to be because 20 minutes, but what

1450
00:46:59.910 --> 00:47:01.919
has been the best time of your life?

1451
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:03.479
If you had to name a time

1452
00:47:05.610 --> 00:47:06.659
and if you'd say why?

1453
00:47:08.680 --> 00:47:09.699
I don't know.

1454
00:47:09.700 --> 00:47:11.430
I like the ports, restaurants.

1455
00:47:14.450 --> 00:47:15.450
That was great.

1456
00:47:16.600 --> 00:47:18.339
You know, that like the 30s, I

1457
00:47:18.340 --> 00:47:20.199
guess, when I was like 30.

1458
00:47:20.200 --> 00:47:21.339
That restaurant was great.

1459
00:47:22.540 --> 00:47:24.229
He wrote a book about it called Slow

1460
00:47:24.230 --> 00:47:25.329
Days, Fast Company.

1461
00:47:28.740 --> 00:47:30.659
But it wound up in,

1462
00:47:30.660 --> 00:47:32.489
you know, mental health.

1463
00:47:33.720 --> 00:47:35.639
Mentally ill and having to go to

1464
00:47:35.640 --> 00:47:36.799
like 12 step programs.

1465
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:38.610
But at the time it seemed great.

1466
00:47:44.140 --> 00:47:45.140
Yes.

1467
00:47:45.690 --> 00:47:47.309
He was usually you took the question

1468
00:47:47.310 --> 00:47:48.269
right out of my mouth.

1469
00:47:48.270 --> 00:47:50.039
So what I was gonna ask you about

1470
00:47:50.040 --> 00:47:51.989
ports and talk

1471
00:47:51.990 --> 00:47:52.529
about it.

1472
00:47:52.530 --> 00:47:54.419
And McKelway and Jochum.

1473
00:47:54.420 --> 00:47:55.889
Yes, they were Great Society.

1474
00:47:57.090 --> 00:47:59.129
Yes. Well, they had that like that

1475
00:47:59.130 --> 00:48:00.959
wonderful jukebox that played

1476
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.969
like all those wonderful like,

1477
00:48:02.970 --> 00:48:03.970
you know.

1478
00:48:04.770 --> 00:48:05.770
What was it that

1479
00:48:07.020 --> 00:48:09.539
Django Reinhart and,

1480
00:48:09.540 --> 00:48:11.249
you know, the Righteous Brothers?

1481
00:48:11.250 --> 00:48:12.360
That was a great combo.

1482
00:48:14.520 --> 00:48:16.799
And then they had like the

1483
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:18.599
it all five friends that I could

1484
00:48:18.600 --> 00:48:20.429
bring there and they would feel

1485
00:48:20.430 --> 00:48:21.929
at home.

1486
00:48:21.930 --> 00:48:24.239
And so it was like another scene.

1487
00:48:24.240 --> 00:48:25.829
So it was just great.

1488
00:48:25.830 --> 00:48:27.739
I loved it because of

1489
00:48:27.740 --> 00:48:28.709
you. Thank you.

1490
00:48:28.710 --> 00:48:29.789
To those of you who weren't here in

1491
00:48:29.790 --> 00:48:31.379
the 70s and the 80s ports.

1492
00:48:31.380 --> 00:48:33.299
There's a restaurant on Santa

1493
00:48:33.300 --> 00:48:35.279
Monica Boulevard, catty

1494
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:37.349
corner from that place

1495
00:48:37.350 --> 00:48:39.329
with Mimosa or

1496
00:48:39.330 --> 00:48:39.719
mostly.

1497
00:48:39.720 --> 00:48:41.789
Yeah, across

1498
00:48:41.790 --> 00:48:43.199
the Formosa Cafe, right where

1499
00:48:43.200 --> 00:48:44.969
everybody dragged them down the 80s.

1500
00:48:44.970 --> 00:48:46.889
Ten dollars for 30 dollars

1501
00:48:46.890 --> 00:48:47.859
for a martini.

1502
00:48:47.860 --> 00:48:48.860
No.

1503
00:48:49.560 --> 00:48:52.199
Yes. It's more a park than a drink.

1504
00:48:52.200 --> 00:48:53.529
Is there another question?

1505
00:48:53.530 --> 00:48:54.959
There's a question here in the center.

1506
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:55.799
I can't say so.

1507
00:48:55.800 --> 00:48:56.800
Go ahead.

1508
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:03.039
If I may have a two part question,

1509
00:49:03.040 --> 00:49:05.119
the art question for you and

1510
00:49:05.120 --> 00:49:06.739
pop music question for you.

1511
00:49:08.900 --> 00:49:10.639
According to the book on the Ferris

1512
00:49:10.640 --> 00:49:12.679
gallery that came out recently,

1513
00:49:12.680 --> 00:49:14.929
a lot of attention is given to

1514
00:49:14.930 --> 00:49:17.389
the San Francisco art scene

1515
00:49:17.390 --> 00:49:19.639
prior to the Los Angeles art scene.

1516
00:49:19.640 --> 00:49:21.049
And I'd be curious to hear your

1517
00:49:21.050 --> 00:49:22.879
observations on

1518
00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:25.040
JDA Fail and other Bay Area artists

1519
00:49:26.120 --> 00:49:28.099
and for the pop music side

1520
00:49:28.100 --> 00:49:29.979
of any groovy memories of

1521
00:49:29.980 --> 00:49:32.539
the shows you attended,

1522
00:49:32.540 --> 00:49:34.299
because L.A., good God, in the 60s

1523
00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:35.869
it was the mothers, the birds, the

1524
00:49:35.870 --> 00:49:37.459
Buffalo Springfield.

1525
00:49:37.460 --> 00:49:38.869
You've mentioned the doors.

1526
00:49:38.870 --> 00:49:40.959
What stands out in your mind as

1527
00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:42.050
a groovy

1528
00:49:43.950 --> 00:49:44.839
moment?

1529
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:45.840
Paul Butterfield.

1530
00:49:48.010 --> 00:49:49.010
Sorry.

1531
00:49:49.850 --> 00:49:50.850
I'm a purist.

1532
00:49:53.810 --> 00:49:54.979
Paul Butterfield still.

1533
00:49:54.980 --> 00:49:55.999
That's right.

1534
00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:57.169
I'll tell you. I'll answer it.

1535
00:49:57.170 --> 00:49:58.369
You tell you. Tell them why you

1536
00:49:58.370 --> 00:49:59.269
never ended up with Paul

1537
00:49:59.270 --> 00:50:00.559
Butterfield. I'll tell them.

1538
00:50:00.560 --> 00:50:02.179
I'll answer that. The San Francisco

1539
00:50:02.180 --> 00:50:03.799
stroy. Tell them a story about why

1540
00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:04.769
you couldn't. What?

1541
00:50:04.770 --> 00:50:06.349
What is tasting? Lemon was like.

1542
00:50:06.350 --> 00:50:07.309
Oh, it.

1543
00:50:07.310 --> 00:50:09.139
I mean, first of all, I chased

1544
00:50:09.140 --> 00:50:11.540
him everywhere with fake eyelashes.

1545
00:50:12.680 --> 00:50:15.019
You know, like Tina Sinatra

1546
00:50:15.020 --> 00:50:17.329
hair. And, you know, I

1547
00:50:17.330 --> 00:50:19.069
followed him everywhere.

1548
00:50:19.070 --> 00:50:20.539
And then it turned out that what he

1549
00:50:20.540 --> 00:50:23.029
really like were like these.

1550
00:50:23.030 --> 00:50:24.949
Oh, well, what I went to New York.

1551
00:50:24.950 --> 00:50:26.479
I was wearing a Brooks Brothers

1552
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:27.649
suit.

1553
00:50:27.650 --> 00:50:30.079
And I had, you know, like I had

1554
00:50:30.080 --> 00:50:31.759
my ear off by for Edwards.

1555
00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:32.929
I never did.

1556
00:50:32.930 --> 00:50:34.429
And I was wearing my glasses that I

1557
00:50:34.430 --> 00:50:35.629
was wearing. You know, it was just

1558
00:50:35.630 --> 00:50:37.459
like a squaresville, as

1559
00:50:37.460 --> 00:50:38.779
you could get.

1560
00:50:38.780 --> 00:50:40.639
And Paul came in and said,

1561
00:50:40.640 --> 00:50:42.619
Eve, my God, you look beautiful.

1562
00:50:43.670 --> 00:50:45.619
And I you know, like I

1563
00:50:45.620 --> 00:50:47.629
said, he hadn't remembered my name.

1564
00:50:47.630 --> 00:50:49.199
I'd been introduced to light that

1565
00:50:49.200 --> 00:50:50.749
the times.

1566
00:50:50.750 --> 00:50:53.429
So that was like the tragically

1567
00:50:53.430 --> 00:50:55.249
my tragic romance with

1568
00:50:55.250 --> 00:50:56.250
popular appeal.

1569
00:50:59.310 --> 00:51:00.679
And I didn't focus that much

1570
00:51:00.680 --> 00:51:02.509
attention to this book on

1571
00:51:02.510 --> 00:51:04.129
the Northern California art scene

1572
00:51:04.130 --> 00:51:05.539
because Christine McKenna's book

1573
00:51:05.540 --> 00:51:06.979
covered that ground so well.

1574
00:51:06.980 --> 00:51:08.569
There are so many other publications

1575
00:51:08.570 --> 00:51:10.369
that do actually do a lot of work on

1576
00:51:10.370 --> 00:51:12.069
the Bay Area art scene.

1577
00:51:12.070 --> 00:51:13.789
And I really wanted this one to be

1578
00:51:13.790 --> 00:51:15.769
in the 60s more than

1579
00:51:15.770 --> 00:51:16.939
in the 50s.

1580
00:51:16.940 --> 00:51:18.859
And so there probably isn't as much

1581
00:51:18.860 --> 00:51:21.109
focus on the beats because there has

1582
00:51:21.110 --> 00:51:22.759
been a lot of writing about that

1583
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:24.109
recently.

1584
00:51:24.110 --> 00:51:26.389
I kind of moved my chronology

1585
00:51:26.390 --> 00:51:27.769
up more toward the 60s.

1586
00:51:27.770 --> 00:51:29.059
I really wanted to focus on

1587
00:51:30.140 --> 00:51:32.119
that period of the Sunset Strip

1588
00:51:32.120 --> 00:51:33.949
and the pop music and the and

1589
00:51:33.950 --> 00:51:35.779
the rise of of

1590
00:51:35.780 --> 00:51:37.610
glossy, shiny plasticky

1591
00:51:38.930 --> 00:51:40.250
art, all of which I loved.

1592
00:51:42.430 --> 00:51:44.269
Here's a question to your left here.

1593
00:51:48.300 --> 00:51:49.650
For either or both of you,

1594
00:51:50.790 --> 00:51:52.589
did artists and writers in Los

1595
00:51:52.590 --> 00:51:54.569
Angeles have more or less to say

1596
00:51:54.570 --> 00:51:56.340
to each other in the 60s than now?

1597
00:51:57.890 --> 00:51:58.699
Well, they are.

1598
00:51:58.700 --> 00:51:59.989
They all have got at Barney's

1599
00:51:59.990 --> 00:52:00.990
Beanery.

1600
00:52:02.090 --> 00:52:04.729
And the comedians with the funniest.

1601
00:52:04.730 --> 00:52:06.679
But the artists were even funnier

1602
00:52:06.680 --> 00:52:07.940
than the comedians.

1603
00:52:08.970 --> 00:52:10.879
So but now everybody,

1604
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:12.199
you know, like all those poor

1605
00:52:12.200 --> 00:52:14.149
comedians, are going to the farmer's

1606
00:52:14.150 --> 00:52:15.619
market, even though they're in their

1607
00:52:15.620 --> 00:52:16.820
90s and on drugs.

1608
00:52:19.430 --> 00:52:20.659
Did you know Steve Martin then?

1609
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:23.159
Yeah. Huh.

1610
00:52:23.160 --> 00:52:25.189
Did you met him

1611
00:52:25.190 --> 00:52:27.019
like at bar, you know, at

1612
00:52:27.020 --> 00:52:28.519
the Troubadour? My friend Michael

1613
00:52:28.520 --> 00:52:29.269
introduced me.

1614
00:52:29.270 --> 00:52:31.099
This guy over here,

1615
00:52:31.100 --> 00:52:32.100
another comedian.

1616
00:52:33.650 --> 00:52:35.059
Comedians are great.

1617
00:52:38.660 --> 00:52:40.459
They may not be as funny as artists,

1618
00:52:40.460 --> 00:52:42.280
but they try.

1619
00:52:45.560 --> 00:52:47.029
There's a question here to your

1620
00:52:47.030 --> 00:52:48.030
right.

1621
00:52:49.080 --> 00:52:50.850
Hi. That's Carrie White.

1622
00:52:51.860 --> 00:52:52.769
Yeah, I know.

1623
00:52:52.770 --> 00:52:54.989
It's just I went to Arts

1624
00:52:54.990 --> 00:52:56.519
Hollywood High with Eve.

1625
00:52:56.520 --> 00:52:58.499
This is just like too much for me.

1626
00:53:00.750 --> 00:53:02.669
And she was my first the first

1627
00:53:02.670 --> 00:53:04.499
beatnik I ever saw and

1628
00:53:04.500 --> 00:53:06.389
told me how to run Hollywood high

1629
00:53:06.390 --> 00:53:08.549
and get out of those clubs

1630
00:53:08.550 --> 00:53:09.550
and clicks.

1631
00:53:11.070 --> 00:53:11.879
I just love you.

1632
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:13.319
And I thank you, honey, for writing

1633
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:15.359
this book. I wanted to hear from Eve

1634
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:16.949
a little more about add keynotes.

1635
00:53:16.950 --> 00:53:18.329
You know, our art teacher, June,

1636
00:53:18.330 --> 00:53:20.159
used to go out with him.

1637
00:53:20.160 --> 00:53:21.029
She did?

1638
00:53:21.030 --> 00:53:22.030
Yeah.

1639
00:53:24.720 --> 00:53:25.859
June.

1640
00:53:25.860 --> 00:53:26.860
June. Ha

1641
00:53:27.830 --> 00:53:28.729
ha.

1642
00:53:28.730 --> 00:53:30.989
Yeah, I remember her.

1643
00:53:30.990 --> 00:53:32.399
But what about Ed?

1644
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:33.269
The other Ed?

1645
00:53:33.270 --> 00:53:35.279
How about a story or two on that

1646
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:36.280
wild guy?

1647
00:53:37.200 --> 00:53:39.119
Well, we already told nine million

1648
00:53:39.120 --> 00:53:40.409
stories.

1649
00:53:40.410 --> 00:53:41.609
Well, you know, I don't think you

1650
00:53:41.610 --> 00:53:42.479
knew it. Did you know?

1651
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:43.609
I don't think you knew it. Q Holds

1652
00:53:43.610 --> 00:53:44.879
so well, did you.

1653
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:46.109
Nope, I didn't.

1654
00:53:46.110 --> 00:53:47.999
I mean, I just knew that, you

1655
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:49.609
know, it just.

1656
00:53:49.610 --> 00:53:51.210
I went up to his house one time.

1657
00:53:52.240 --> 00:53:53.589
That was the first night I met all

1658
00:53:53.590 --> 00:53:55.149
those people he was having a poker

1659
00:53:55.150 --> 00:53:56.449
game up there.

1660
00:53:56.450 --> 00:53:58.149
No. You know, I didn't know anyone

1661
00:53:58.150 --> 00:54:00.159
actually played poker or like

1662
00:54:00.160 --> 00:54:01.039
poker.

1663
00:54:01.040 --> 00:54:02.019
I like that.

1664
00:54:02.020 --> 00:54:04.269
But apparently everyone loved it,

1665
00:54:04.270 --> 00:54:05.529
whereas I thought it was just

1666
00:54:05.530 --> 00:54:06.699
terrible.

1667
00:54:06.700 --> 00:54:07.700
But

1668
00:54:08.590 --> 00:54:10.419
he apparently people would go up

1669
00:54:10.420 --> 00:54:11.919
there to like.

1670
00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:13.059
People would cheat.

1671
00:54:13.060 --> 00:54:14.949
That was the idea.

1672
00:54:14.950 --> 00:54:17.229
And apparently you don't like Irving

1673
00:54:17.230 --> 00:54:18.519
said he didn't know that that was

1674
00:54:18.520 --> 00:54:20.379
he. I didn't come up with somebody

1675
00:54:20.380 --> 00:54:22.329
cheating and he started to yell

1676
00:54:22.330 --> 00:54:23.649
and shout and it turned out that

1677
00:54:23.650 --> 00:54:25.209
wasn't the right thing to do.

1678
00:54:25.210 --> 00:54:27.339
You're supposed to let them cheat.

1679
00:54:27.340 --> 00:54:28.779
This is the only way they could get

1680
00:54:28.780 --> 00:54:29.780
money.

1681
00:54:33.730 --> 00:54:34.730
I should actually.

1682
00:54:35.500 --> 00:54:36.819
Are there any other questions?

1683
00:54:36.820 --> 00:54:37.919
There's one to your left.

1684
00:54:43.200 --> 00:54:44.429
Just to follow up.

1685
00:54:44.430 --> 00:54:46.349
How do you rate Los Angeles now,

1686
00:54:46.350 --> 00:54:48.419
either from the standpoint of art

1687
00:54:48.420 --> 00:54:49.420
or living

1688
00:54:50.530 --> 00:54:51.530
mere Eve?

1689
00:54:52.340 --> 00:54:53.939
I'm still alive. So I love it

1690
00:54:55.410 --> 00:54:56.410
here

1691
00:54:57.740 --> 00:54:58.740
and I love it, too.

1692
00:55:02.190 --> 00:55:04.019
So are we supposed to go

1693
00:55:04.020 --> 00:55:05.279
and sell books?

1694
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:06.929
Are we willing to make one?

1695
00:55:06.930 --> 00:55:07.949
One more question

1696
00:55:10.810 --> 00:55:12.239
and one more question.

1697
00:55:12.240 --> 00:55:13.440
That will go up. We'll go up in.

1698
00:55:16.530 --> 00:55:17.419
OK.

1699
00:55:17.420 --> 00:55:18.429
We'll wait for the microphone,

1700
00:55:18.430 --> 00:55:19.430
please.

1701
00:55:24.820 --> 00:55:26.659
OK. Despite the posted the quote,

1702
00:55:26.660 --> 00:55:27.509
I did that.

1703
00:55:27.510 --> 00:55:29.099
Thank you. The questions about

1704
00:55:29.100 --> 00:55:31.499
leaves friendship with Joan Didion.

1705
00:55:31.500 --> 00:55:32.669
Yes, she would help me.

1706
00:55:32.670 --> 00:55:33.749
She actually helped me.

1707
00:55:35.820 --> 00:55:37.589
I was like I wrote this piece about

1708
00:55:37.590 --> 00:55:39.259
Hollywood. I called the Chic.

1709
00:55:39.260 --> 00:55:41.099
And I, you know, like guys who

1710
00:55:41.100 --> 00:55:42.749
don't help do anything.

1711
00:55:42.750 --> 00:55:44.459
So I showed it to her.

1712
00:55:44.460 --> 00:55:46.079
I didn't expect her to help me to do

1713
00:55:46.080 --> 00:55:47.099
anything.

1714
00:55:47.100 --> 00:55:48.669
But she knew this guy at Rolling

1715
00:55:48.670 --> 00:55:50.189
Stone. She said he's looking for

1716
00:55:50.190 --> 00:55:51.659
authors. This is great.

1717
00:55:51.660 --> 00:55:53.249
She set it up to him.

1718
00:55:53.250 --> 00:55:54.869
I got 250 dollars.

1719
00:55:56.130 --> 00:55:58.309
So that was rapers, but

1720
00:55:58.310 --> 00:56:00.150
it was one hundred and nine.

1721
00:56:04.650 --> 00:56:06.689
I don't remember, you know, likes

1722
00:56:06.690 --> 00:56:08.460
it might. Twenty eight or nine.

1723
00:56:10.850 --> 00:56:12.179
You know, the art world, it got

1724
00:56:12.180 --> 00:56:14.250
panned off for me, so I was bitter.

1725
00:56:18.090 --> 00:56:19.829
That, you know, the art world

1726
00:56:19.830 --> 00:56:21.509
should, but it just doesn't.

1727
00:56:21.510 --> 00:56:22.619
So you actually wrote your first

1728
00:56:22.620 --> 00:56:24.149
memoir when you were twenty nine.

1729
00:56:24.150 --> 00:56:25.319
Right. So take that.

1730
00:56:27.780 --> 00:56:29.459
But I'd written once earlier.

1731
00:56:32.860 --> 00:56:34.559
I thought, you know.

1732
00:56:34.560 --> 00:56:36.519
Yeah, well, you're really

1733
00:56:36.520 --> 00:56:37.709
a great revelation.

1734
00:56:37.710 --> 00:56:39.149
That's a revelation for all writers,

1735
00:56:39.150 --> 00:56:40.229
is that you are your own best

1736
00:56:40.230 --> 00:56:41.819
material.

1737
00:56:41.820 --> 00:56:43.499
You know, you're your own idea, your

1738
00:56:43.500 --> 00:56:45.449
own. You are the source of much

1739
00:56:45.450 --> 00:56:46.889
of your own.

1740
00:56:46.890 --> 00:56:48.360
That's mature. I hope so.

1741
00:56:49.890 --> 00:56:50.890
No, really.

1742
00:56:52.410 --> 00:56:53.279
One more question.

1743
00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:54.280
I will go upstairs.

1744
00:56:55.750 --> 00:56:57.189
Oh, there may be two more questions,

1745
00:56:57.190 --> 00:56:58.190
yes. Yes.

1746
00:57:01.980 --> 00:57:03.099
They've given up on the mike.

1747
00:57:04.970 --> 00:57:06.820
Hi before.

1748
00:57:10.790 --> 00:57:12.019
Where's your order?

1749
00:57:14.490 --> 00:57:16.789
You know, oh, people are here.

1750
00:57:16.790 --> 00:57:18.709
I feel sorry that they missed out

1751
00:57:18.710 --> 00:57:20.989
on our great times and for

1752
00:57:20.990 --> 00:57:21.949
ten years.

1753
00:57:21.950 --> 00:57:23.599
Incredible incestuousness.

1754
00:57:25.150 --> 00:57:27.049
A man who ran it was a wonderful

1755
00:57:27.050 --> 00:57:28.669
man. Logic.

1756
00:57:28.670 --> 00:57:29.959
Well, yes.

1757
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:32.030
And it was Algonquin West.

1758
00:57:33.270 --> 00:57:35.359
It was a feature

1759
00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:37.699
in all of our lives at that

1760
00:57:37.700 --> 00:57:39.499
which was a complete and total

1761
00:57:39.500 --> 00:57:41.039
rescue for us.

1762
00:57:41.040 --> 00:57:42.949
Gordon Workers had to

1763
00:57:42.950 --> 00:57:44.959
sit in L.A.

1764
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:47.059
Nothing going on in ringing

1765
00:57:47.060 --> 00:57:48.289
early 60s.

1766
00:57:48.290 --> 00:57:50.239
Nothing zero was

1767
00:57:50.240 --> 00:57:52.449
boring, boring, boring, except for

1768
00:57:52.450 --> 00:57:53.569
sports.

1769
00:57:53.570 --> 00:57:55.649
And there was that period enforced

1770
00:57:55.650 --> 00:57:58.649
till dark cloud over like a whale

1771
00:57:58.650 --> 00:58:00.509
or a whole 10 years

1772
00:58:00.510 --> 00:58:02.299
or everything under the sun

1773
00:58:02.300 --> 00:58:03.399
happened.

1774
00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:05.299
But, you know, in the time I knew I

1775
00:58:05.300 --> 00:58:07.279
never knew what an influence

1776
00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:08.280
your mother was.

1777
00:58:09.350 --> 00:58:11.919
Your mother your mother

1778
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:12.799
did a number on me.

1779
00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:13.910
That's why I went crazy.

1780
00:58:17.030 --> 00:58:18.030
She was fine.

1781
00:58:19.010 --> 00:58:19.909
Just fine.

1782
00:58:19.910 --> 00:58:21.110
She had great parties.

1783
00:58:22.270 --> 00:58:23.689
And I always want to go to more

1784
00:58:23.690 --> 00:58:24.739
great parties to

1785
00:58:25.900 --> 00:58:27.289
join great parties.

1786
00:58:27.290 --> 00:58:29.519
Invited this Dubinski, and they like

1787
00:58:29.520 --> 00:58:30.520
Mexican food.

1788
00:58:33.950 --> 00:58:35.989
So she led you on this.

1789
00:58:35.990 --> 00:58:36.990
This is what you got.

1790
00:58:37.820 --> 00:58:39.349
That's right.

1791
00:58:39.350 --> 00:58:40.350
Thank you.

1792
00:58:42.770 --> 00:58:44.239
I think we should go upstairs.

1793
00:58:44.240 --> 00:58:45.799
That one burning, burning issue,

1794
00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:47.779
burning question, burning question.

1795
00:58:47.780 --> 00:58:48.780
Burning question.

1796
00:58:53.650 --> 00:58:55.280
We have a microphone going down

1797
00:59:03.170 --> 00:59:04.429
since the 70s and 80s.

1798
00:59:04.430 --> 00:59:06.289
Hunter, you've been a real observer

1799
00:59:06.290 --> 00:59:07.819
of Los Angeles.

1800
00:59:07.820 --> 00:59:09.709
And I guess I would ask in closing,

1801
00:59:09.710 --> 00:59:11.539
if you have

1802
00:59:11.540 --> 00:59:13.369
any anecdotes like Eve

1803
00:59:13.370 --> 00:59:15.259
or a final anecdote of being

1804
00:59:15.260 --> 00:59:17.269
more in it than

1805
00:59:17.270 --> 00:59:18.270
observing it?

1806
00:59:19.100 --> 00:59:20.239
Well, that's a whole nother book.

1807
00:59:21.410 --> 00:59:23.449
I really wrote this book because

1808
00:59:23.450 --> 00:59:24.749
I wasn't here in the 60s.

1809
00:59:24.750 --> 00:59:26.209
I got to have a vicarious

1810
00:59:26.210 --> 00:59:28.099
experience. I always was fascinated

1811
00:59:28.100 --> 00:59:29.959
by this period. And the more I read

1812
00:59:29.960 --> 00:59:31.189
about it and researched at, the more

1813
00:59:31.190 --> 00:59:32.749
I wanted to live through it in my

1814
00:59:32.750 --> 00:59:33.889
own way, which is through other

1815
00:59:33.890 --> 00:59:35.179
people's memories of it.

1816
00:59:35.180 --> 00:59:37.339
And so I don't have a final anecdote

1817
00:59:37.340 --> 00:59:39.169
except to say that when I

1818
00:59:39.170 --> 00:59:41.029
was an art school, they

1819
00:59:41.030 --> 00:59:43.189
had a little competition,

1820
00:59:43.190 --> 00:59:44.419
you know, and they had to have

1821
00:59:44.420 --> 00:59:46.279
someone there to bring an artist to

1822
00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:48.649
judge the students work.

1823
00:59:48.650 --> 00:59:50.689
And the judge was

1824
00:59:50.690 --> 00:59:51.859
Ed Rochette.

1825
00:59:51.860 --> 00:59:54.229
And he chose my art,

1826
00:59:54.230 --> 00:59:56.000
which was so bad

1827
00:59:57.440 --> 00:59:59.329
that I've been grateful to

1828
00:59:59.330 --> 01:00:00.330
him ever since.

1829
01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:03.389
I always thought that was so funny.

1830
01:00:03.390 --> 01:00:05.239
And when I first

1831
01:00:05.240 --> 01:00:06.919
moved here, I went I met him.

1832
01:00:06.920 --> 01:00:08.929
I was just so terribly

1833
01:00:08.930 --> 01:00:09.979
honored to meet him.

1834
01:00:09.980 --> 01:00:12.169
And he was he, of course, had

1835
01:00:12.170 --> 01:00:14.509
had you know,

1836
01:00:14.510 --> 01:00:15.889
this is a time when things were so

1837
01:00:15.890 --> 01:00:17.839
informal and so and so forth.

1838
01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:19.159
It was so easy to have a

1839
01:00:19.160 --> 01:00:20.429
conversation with anybody.

1840
01:00:20.430 --> 01:00:22.189
So I feel like I a where I've come

1841
01:00:22.190 --> 01:00:23.869
full circle of that kind of slightly

1842
01:00:23.870 --> 01:00:25.669
answers your question.

1843
01:00:25.670 --> 01:00:27.649
And like I like Marcel Duchamp.

1844
01:00:27.650 --> 01:00:28.699
I like artists.

1845
01:00:28.700 --> 01:00:30.019
That's what Marcel Duchamp said.

1846
01:00:30.020 --> 01:00:31.699
He said, I like artists, images and

1847
01:00:31.700 --> 01:00:32.779
artists.

1848
01:00:32.780 --> 01:00:34.549
And I thank you all for coming.

1849
01:00:34.550 --> 01:00:36.619
If you'll go upstairs immediately

1850
01:00:36.620 --> 01:00:37.669
to the bookstore.

1851
01:00:37.670 --> 01:00:39.619
We have a wine party for you where

1852
01:00:39.620 --> 01:00:40.940
you could all wine.

1853
01:00:42.350 --> 01:00:43.370
Thank you for coming.